레이블이 Vine Deloria인 게시물을 표시합니다. 모든 게시물 표시
레이블이 Vine Deloria인 게시물을 표시합니다. 모든 게시물 표시

2026년 1월 10일 토요일

Spirit and Reason: The Vine Deloria, Jr. Reader by Vine Deloria Jr. | Goodreads

Spirit and Reason: The Vine Deloria, Jr. Reader by Vine Deloria Jr. | Goodreads





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Spirit and Reason: The Vine Deloria, Jr. Reader


Vine Deloria Jr., Wilma Mankiller, Kristen Foehner (Editor)
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4.44
165 ratings10 reviews

Spirit & Reason is a collection of the works of one of the most important thinkers of the twentieth century—Vine Deloria, Jr. Author of such classics as Red Earth, White Lies, and God is Red , Deloria takes readers on a momentous journey through Indian country and beyond by exploring some of the most important issues of the past three decades. The essays gathered here are wide-ranging and essential and include representative pieces from some of Deloria's most influential books, some of his lesser-known articles, and ten new pieces written especially for Spirit & Reason .

Tellingly, in the course of reviewing his body of work, Deloria found much that he had written in the past remained current and compelling because "people have not made much progress in resolving issues." Whether disputing theories of religion and science, examining the problems of modern education, or expounding on our understanding of the world, Deloria consistently urges readers toward an intimate connection with the world in which we live. For those familiar with Deloria's works as well as those discovering him for the first time, this essential anthology will teach, provoke, and enlighten in equal measure.

GenresIndigenousPhilosophyNonfictionHistoryNative AmericanSpiritualityAnthropology
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400 pages, Paperback

First published August 1, 1999
Original title
Spirit & Reason: The Vine Deloria, Jr., Reader



This edition
Format
400 pages, Paperback

Published
August 1, 1999 by Fulcrum Publishing

ISBN
9781555914301 (ISBN10: 1555914306)

ASIN
1555914306

Language
English




Vine Victor Deloria, Jr. was an American Indian author, theologian, historian, and activist. He was widely known for his book Custer Died for Your Sins: An Indian Manifesto (1969), which helped generate national attention to Native American issues in the same year as the Alcatraz-Red Power Movement. From 1964–1967, he had served as executive director of the National Congress of American Indians, increasing tribal membership from 19 to 156. Beginning in 1977, he was a board member of the National Museum of the American Indian, which now has buildings in both New York City and Washington, DC.

Deloria began his academic career in 1970 at Western Washington State College at Bellingham, Washington. He became Professor of Political Science at the University of Arizona (1978–1990), where he established the first master's degree program in American Indian Studies in the United States. After ten years at the University of Colorado, Boulder, he returned to Arizona and taught at the School of Law.
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4.44
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Keegan
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October 13, 2009
My favorite thing about Deloria's deconstruction of accepted beliefs, is his unwillingness to privilege scientific method over all other forms of accumulating knowledge. Many people consider traditional wisdom valid only when it is supported by scientific method, and that the validity of traditional wisdom must be verified by scientific discovery rather than visa-versa. This is dangerous. Science often lags dangerously far behind traditional wisdom, and ignoring knowledge gained through spirit and reason but ignored, rejected, or unconfirmed by science is often detrimental to ourselves and the environment.
Deloria recounts how three sisters visited the Iroquois and told them that if they performed certain ceremonies they would feed their people indefinitely. They turned themselves into beans, corn, and squash, and required that they were planted and harvested together. Thus the Iroquois helped propagate the sisters and the sisters kept the Iroquois' land fertile and productive. This was long before scientists understood the nitrogen cycle. In fact, science eradicated the practice of crop rotation on the Iroquois' land, planted monocultures of corn and fertilized it with levels of synthetic nitrogen that destroyed the earth and the people who depended on it.
“Science carelessly rejects alternative sources of information in favor of the clear idea, an absurd abstraction if ever there was one. Lacking a spiritual, social, or political dimension, it is difficult to understand why Western peoples believe they are so clever” (13).
The revelation of the Iroquois was not likely learned from trial and error, but more likely the product of a unique experience, like a vision of the three sisters mentioned in the story, or intuition derived from connection to the land. These unique experiences are brilliant flashes of light that guide us in the dark. Yet science purposely ignores unique experiences, and basis its knowledge only on data that can be replicated. “In formulating their understanding of the world, Indians did not discard any experience...If the Western Sioux obtained their knowledge by accepting everything they experienced as grist for the mill, Western science has drawn its conclusions by excluding the kinds of data that the Western Sioux cherished” (44).
Unique experiences, often referred to as religious experiences, stand at odds with scientific method, but they are the source of most of our profound understanding of the world. Stories, which give our reality shape, are not derived from methodical examination of the world, but through imagination and vision. As Black Elk famously said of one myth, “This they tell, and whether it happened so or not, I do not know; but if you think about it, you can see that it is true.”
This is reminiscent of Picasso's line, “Art is a lie that tells the truth.” In Deloria's account of Native history, Indians followed the beacon that guides artists in all aspects of life. “Some things are accepted because there is value in the very mystery they represent” (46).

Deloria also importantly deconstructs the scientific obsession with binaries. “In Western science the propensity is to classify certain kinds of phenomena under major generalization and then to accept or reject all additional data according to their proximity to the behavior that the generalization is capable of explaining. Thus Western science develops the “either/or” method of analysis – the creature is either a dog or a cat, it is hot or cold, living or dead, and son on.” It is painful, inaccurate, and dangerous to view the world this way. I see the negative affects of this world view in the struggle of transgender people to find justice in our society. Yet transgender people were easily incorporated in many other cultures that were less obsessed with binaries. Sanskrit, Hindi, and most Native American languages, just to name a few, all identify more than two genders with their language. “Science is thus terribly complex and sophisticated about minute particles that are irrelevant to just about everything we do or want to do” (68).

Deloria debunks several blatantly false yet widely held conceptions of history.
One is that nations develop from hunter/gatherer to agricultural to modern urban society: “Arriving at national conciousness in a hunting state, the embryo nation was supposed to pass eventually to an agricultural state and then gradually evolve into a modern urban society. This process was believed to be part of the God's divine plan, and American history was perverted to explain the process” (190). In fact, much research has been done on the health and longevity of societies, and hunter/gather societies come out on top every time. “Development” into a modern nation state is a two-sided coin, and for one group of people to “develop” another must be forced to “under develop.” There must be a lower class for their to be an upper class. There must be slaves if there are masters. There must be a third world if there is a first world. Humans would destroy the planet if every culture were a modern urban society.
It is absurd to think that hunter/gatherer cultures never imagined the ideas that the “western” world is based upon, such as agriculture and democracy. The historical myth of the west and development would have you believe that the Greeks were the first and only people to get together and decide they should vote in order to make a collective decision, or till fields instead of foraging. But it seems pretty unreasonable to suggest that Native Americans never considered majority rule or planting an ear of corn. In fact, much research has been done that suggests first nation people actively rejected these concepts, as if they understood the tyranny of majority rule, labor intensity of agriculture, and danger of power structures before they let capitalism take over their psyche.
Yet the idea of “developing” into an “advanced” “western” society was used to strip natives of their land after forcefully doing so was made illegal. Deloria debunks the glossy history that the United States has gradually become more charitable toward Native Americans since the days of small pox blankets and western expansion. The United States government slaughtered Native people and stripped them of their land until popular opinion would no longer stand for this. But this did not end the land theft or murder. When read closely, as Deloria does, every bill passed to “manage” Native America has been a thinly veiled way to legally strip Native of their land and destroy their culture. “In forcing Indians to evolve from hunting to an agricultural state, federal policy allowed the lower-class whites to continue their slothful pastoral pursuits...It should have been apparent, had anyone cared to understand, that allotment was a contemporary way to strip the tribes of their physical aspects by ostensibly legal means” (191).
“The argument, therefore, that the Europeans brought the great conception of civilization, conceived as a sedentary agricultural enterprise, to the New World is absurd on its face” (210), because most of the staples of agriculture, both in the new and old worlds, originated here, including tomatoes, potatoes, corn and beans. Natives harvested all of these things, and they did it in a far more sustainable way than contemporary agriculture does. “In the four and a half centuries since Columbus blundered into the Western Hemisphere, the American has not developed a single indigenous staple beyond those he derived from the Indians” (Schlesinger, Arthus M., Paths to Present (Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1964) p 220)

John Collier – according to Deloria, one of the few friends of Native America in U.S. Government history.

Another historical myth is that natives were sitting around starving, shivering, and dying before the invasion. On the anniversary of Columbus' accidental landing, a native friend of mine said that despite “the genocide of certain tribes” she was glad to be able to live the life she lives, because it was snowing that day and the idea of a wigwam sounded cold. If natives of the north were cold and miserable, they would have moved south. At least grant them that much common sense. If they didn't like any life they could lead on the Americas, maybe they would have built really big boats and gone exploring. Or perhaps the impulse to explore and conquer the outside world stems from an insatiable void on the inside, and that's why native cultures were content with their lands while others destroy every piece of land they find until nothing is left.
Instead of addressing the massive problems in their culture, like inequalities, hierarchies, and false dichotomies, they offered the myth of american upward mobility and western expansion as solutions: “They could not provide for their own poor because the only glue that held the American government together was a process of continual expansion, the transference of problems of political importance to the realm of economics” (218).
As Deloria recounts, a native elder offered a solution that would have left natives with their land, given money to America's poor, and began to address the root of equality in this culture:
“Brothers, money to us is of no value, and to most of us unknown; and as no consideration whatever can induce us to sell the lands, on which we get sustenance for our women and children, we hope we may be allowed to point out a mode by which your settlers may be easily remove, and peace be obtained.
“Brothers, we know that these settlers are poor, or they would never have ventured to live in a country which has been in continual trouble ever since they crossed the Ohio. Divide therefore this large sum of money, which you have offered to us among these people;...and we are persuaded they would most readily accept it in lieu of the lands you sold to them” (Virgnia Irving Armstrong, I Have Spoken (Chicago: Swallow Press, 1971), p. 37.)
This offer was, of course, not accepted. Native American land was taken in the “Western” march toward destruction. So my friend's happiness to live as she does seems a bit hollow. The English could have offered wood framed houses without rape, murder, smallpox blanket and worse in return. Natives surely offered beans, corn, tomatoes, potatoes, crop rotation and more without demanding England in return.
That is why I choose not to celebrate the dominant narrative on this day, but to celebrate the myriad things Indigenous people have contributed to this culture. Many of which could help us escape from the violent cycles we are in.
Deloria shows that Native many native customs are now being re-adopted in an effort to form a greater society: “Today we are discovering in nearly every area of life that the tenets of civilized existence as demonstrated by the Indian nations were profound and that the solution of American social problems depends in large measure on adopting the Indian style of life. This is true not only with respect to ecology but also with respect to compensation theories of punishment and criminal law, the small local community as the basic unit of government, and decisions made by concensus rather than by compromise of two irreconcilable differences” (220).
But many of the proponents of this are rejected by Americans: “Perhaps the tragedy of today is that too many Americans see lawyers like William Kunstler, consumer advocates like Ralph Nader, labor leaders like Cesar Chavez, and American poets and writers as disruptive of the old order rather than as precursors of a new order” (204).

Often when I speak of the power of native mythology to teach people the morality of how to treat one another and the natural world, people argue that we shouldn't need myths to teach us not to kill one another, that we should be able to reason our way to proper behavior. Yet when I put it in Western terms they understand what I'm saying.
If I say this myth about a jealous woman turning into a monster that kills her family and eventually destroys herself constantly reminded Alaska natives of the danger of jealousy, they equate it with the myths adults tell children to keep them from misbehaving, like 'if you make a face it'll stay like that,' essentially saying that native cultures were childish, and we shouldn't need “lies” to keep people in line, we should be able to do it with truth alone. But art is a lie that tells the truth. When I remind people that Othello is about a jealous man that turns into a monster, destroying his family and eventually himself, which constantly reminds us of the dangers of jealousy, people start to get it.
“When (social scientists) look at Indian customs..and say, 'Indians have this great taboo that something is going to happen unless they do certain things with plant and animal remains,' I think hat is taking the Western quadrant and projecting onto the Indian psyche a cause-and-effect relationship with the world...To violate a relationship, or to mix up a relationship, would be to introduce a disharmony into the world that would eventually lead to the downfall of all species” (226).
It is even more important to recognize that native ideas and practices have validity outside of Western context. We need not identify the chemical reaction of golden seal with our body to validate the hundreds of years natives used it to fight colds.

In “The Concept of History” Deloria charges Christianity with creating the Western obsession with a chronological history. In its constant striving to prove the lineage of each of its major characters it asserts a scope to all of history and time at which history began which are obviously false and have many awful repercussions. This obviously climaxes with Jesus, who the new testament scrambles to prove is the descendant of Adam, as well as God himself. This climax should have brought the end of times in this narrative mythology, but did not, and has thus inspired a fear of the end of times in every generation of Christians since the time of Christ. This mad rush for the end of times and desperation to bring a climax to chronological history has created and hastened the atrocities of the West, in the missionaries' goal to spread the word to every soul on earth, to prepare the way for the second coming. Secular Westerner's too, are not exempt from this accusation. Even if they are not attempting to pave the way for the end of times, they have absorbed the mentality of a pressing chronological history, and have rushed to spread their systems of government and economics around the world, creating a closed system that will eventually offer no alternative to this world view, and thus perpetuate itself forever.
“It is said that one cannot judge Christianity by the actions of secular Western man. But such a contention judges Westerners much too harshly. Where did Westerners get their ideas of divine right to conquest, of manifest destiny, of themselves as the vanguard of true civilization, if not from Christianity? Having tied itself to history and maintained that its god controlled that history, Christianity must accept the consequences of its past. Secular history is now our of control and its influence has become a rather demoniac, disruptive force among nations – this is part and parcel of the Christian religion. If the lack of a sense of history can be called a shortcoming of tribal religions, as indeed it can, overemphasis on historic reality and its attendant consequences can certainly be assigned a bad grade for the Christian religion” (304).

“Indian tribal membership today is a fiction created by the federal government, not a creation of the Indian people themselves” (312).

In 1978, Congress passed a joint resolution entitled the American Indian Religious Freedom Act (324). Until then, the Freedom of Religion and separation of Church and State were obviously hollow shams. Tribal religions were banned by law, and schools banned the use of native languages.
And freedom of religion and the separation of church and state are still a sham, as Deloria shows in “Sacred Places and Moral Responsibility.” Some of Native America's traditionally sacred grounds are protected, but Natives are not allowed create any new sacred spaces that will be protected by law. So the law effectively says that all native religions are dead, and that no new religious experiences can occur in Native America.

The last great point in this book is that the world religions created the subject-object world we suffer in today. “The great innovation of the world religions is to reduce natural events to a sequnce of containing some form of predictability, to introduce the conception of law and regularity into the natural world. Such an innovation is wholly artificial and may be understood by primitive peoples as the original sin...Paul Tillich noted that the primitive understanding of reality changes 'when the system of powers is replaced by the correlation of self and world, of subjectivity and objectivity. Man becomes an epistemological, legal, and moral center, and things become objects of his knowledge, his work, and his use' (Tillich, The Protestant Era, p. 120). This point of departure separates primitive people from the rest of the human species; it distinguishes civilized from primitive, and unleashes the energies of our species on a path of conquest of the rest of nature, which has now been reduced to the status of an object...'man who transforms the world into a universal machine serving his purposes has to adapt himself to the laws of the machine. The mechanized world of things draws man into itself and makes him a cog, driven by the mechanical necesssities of the whole. The personality that deprives nature of its power in order to elecate itself above it becomes a powerless part of its own creation' (Ibid, 123). It would appear, therefore, that organizing and systematizing religious experiences into reliable and predictable knowledge is a major theological trangression and a movement away from intimate understanding of our place in the world in an epistemological sense...'The worship of Nature tends to unite the members of different communities because it is not self-centered' (Arnold Joseph Toynbee, An Historian's Approach to Religion (New York: Oxford University Press, 1956) p. 34). (358-9)


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Will
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April 4, 2021
love the style. chews on some heavy ideas but is never condescending, expresses immense frustration but has a certain humour behind it

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Dave Holt
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December 10, 2020
Vine Deloria writes about the universally held "Personalist" philosophy of American Indian spiritual seekers: all things are related and "also participate in the moral content of events... responsibility for maintaining the harmony of life falls equally on all creatures." (52) This has long been a theme I've explored in my study of the tradition, so I was heartened to see him explore it as well. The European mind did not consider the perspective of the presence of the personal in nature, having inherited the Biblical idea of "dominion over the Earth." Deloria is one of our universally accepted Native American intellectuals. He also explores contemporary challenges to the traditions: American Indian studies programs that don't achieve the goal, how their societies still deal with the challenges from the European conquest which represents a clash of world views. Could these views have been harmonized? History tells the result. The warlike spirit of the white European invasion of the continent determined the result. What might have been the ideal human solution to the encounter of the two communities?

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Emma
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July 1, 2007
incredibly interesting and good insights
great read

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Sarah
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July 27, 2018
I especially love Vine Deloria Jr.'s snark!
And another book joins the everybody should read this pile.
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Susan Herring
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December 30, 2025
What an educational, inspirational, brilliant book. Though written in 1999, it is still relevant. Vine Deloria, Jr. covers so many subjects in these essays, and he thoroughly knows each one. As Wilma Mankiller says at the beginning of the Foreword, "No writer has more clearly articulated the unspoken emotions, dreams, and life ways of contemporary Native people than Vine Deloria." It is dense, and it took me the better part of the year to finish, but I'm glad I did.

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Linden Leman
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January 27, 2023
Reading Deloria is like a breath of fresh air: he's so wicked smart that not only can he hang with the academics, but he can blow them out of the water in a way that is witty and readable. One of many great 20th century prophets.

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Richard
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June 8, 2019
As with any collection of essays or articles this one has some which are more interesting and/or better written than others. Generally, however, the quality of work in this book is superior to what one encounters in a collection where many authors have contributed. There are two reasons for this, IMHO.

First, Deloria is an accomplished scholar. His writing demonstrates that he has researched and thought about the topic at hand carefully before writing about it. Thus, most of the pieces contain a summary of other largely Western Eurocentric viewpoints before he critiques them and then expresses his own. This helps to put the issue he is discussing in a context for me to consider.

Second, unlike many academicians his prose is direct and easy to understand. This plus his occasional use of wry humor, if not outright sarcasm, make his work quite readable. Many of the chapters in the book felt like Deloria was lecturing, if not speaking to me, in a casual albeit highly informative kind of way.

My criticisms of the book are modest. First, some of the chapters left me wanting more. Ie, there were times when it felt like the chapter ended without his having gotten to all of what he might have known or believed about the topic.

Second, he does not shy away from criticizing the Western Eurocentric perspective. Anthropology and archaeology in particular are targets that he focuses on but Western style reductionism and religion come under criticism as well. While most times he explains clearly how this mainstream style of analysis of Native American cultures or history is lacking, there are a few occasions when he offers his opinions in a more off handed kind of way. Ie, he assumes the reader will agree with him rather than tries to convince him of the merits of his argument with more information, etc.

Overall, though, this is an informative and engaging read for anyone wanting to learn more about NA cultures, let alone have his/her mainstream Eurocentric world view challenged. After having read this book I can see why my Native American Studies professor friend calls Deloria one of the ‘giants’ in the field. His work, which is comprehensive and spans 30+ years, certainly merits more attention from me.
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Donna
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November 10, 2012
I almost quit reading this after the first two chapters but I am glad I did not. The book is a collection of Vine Deloria Jr.'s essays and it seems written for an academic audience. The first two chapters are about debates between different philosophers who were unfamiliar to me. I continued reading and found much of what Deloria had to say was profound and enlightening. He takes a hard look at education, anglo-american culture, religion and science from a Native American perspective and points out that our culture looks at issues in a restrictive manner rather than in a complete and holistic way. The essays were on a variety of topics written over a few decades. Some seemed more relevant to present times than others. In contrast he shares some basic information about the Native American approach to life, observation, education, religion and culture and explains the connections between people and nature in a life view that sees all as connected and all things living and inanimate and people as relations. He also explains the incredible damage done to the tribal people over the past few hundred years of conquest, boarding schools and cultural and religious represssion.

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P. Es
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February 21, 2017
good intro, especially "If You Think About it, You Will See That it's True".
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================

Spirit and Reason: The Vine Deloria, Jr. Reader Kindle Edition
by Vine Deloria, Jr. (Author), Sam Scinta (Editor), & 1 more  Format: Kindle Edition
4.4 4.4 out of 5 stars   (47)
See all formats and editions
Spirit & Reason is a collection of the works of one of the most important thinkers of the twentieth century—Vine Deloria, Jr. Author of such classics as Red Earth, White Lies, and God is Red, Deloria takes readers on a momentous journey through Indian country and beyond by exploring some of the most important issues of the past three decades. The essays gathered here are wide-ranging and essential and include representative pieces from some of Deloria's most influential books, some of his lesser-known articles, and ten new pieces written especially for Spirit & Reason.


Tellingly, in the course of reviewing his body of work, Deloria found much that he had written in the past remained current and compelling because "people have not made much progress in resolving issues." Whether disputing theories of religion and science, examining the problems of modern education, or expounding on our understanding of the world, Deloria consistently urges readers toward an intimate connection with the world in which we live. For those familiar with Deloria's works as well as those discovering him for the first time, this essential anthology will teach, provoke, and enlighten in equal measure.
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===
Review
"No writer has more clearly articulated the unspoken emotions, dreams, and lifeways of contemporary Native people than Vine Deloria... With flawless logic and adroit use of language, Deloria examines the way many traditional Native people look at the universe, the connectedness of all living things, and our own insignificance in the totality of things compared to the objective, segmented way scientists in the academy view the universe." --From the forward by Wilma P. Mankiller, Former Principal Chief of the Chrokee Nation of Oklahoma
About the Author
Vine Deloria Jr., is a leading Native American scholar whose research writings, and teaching have encompassed history, law, religious studies, and political science. He is the former executive director of the National Congress of American Indians. Named by Time magazine as one of the eleven greatest religious thinkers of the twentieth century, he is the author of numerous acclaimed books, including God is Red, Custer Died for Your Sins, Power and Place, and Red Earth, White Lies. Mr. Deloria lives in Golden, Colorado.
Sam Scinta is president and publisher of Fulcrum Publishing and the creator of Fulcrum's best-selling Speaker's Corner series on contemporary political affairs.
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From other countries

Gwendolyn S. Barnes
5.0 out of 5 stars Very Good Book
Reviewed in the United States on 11 May 2010
Format: PaperbackVerified Purchase
I find Mr. Deloria's writing to be very engaging. If you wish to learn more about Native American Culture and History you can do so with this book along with sharing in the emotional, psychological and spiritual foundation from which the the Native American people evolved.
9 people found this helpful
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Jim Dickie
5.0 out of 5 stars Great learning experience
Reviewed in the United States on 22 May 2024
Verified Purchase
What I gained from this book is just how little I know about things including my self.
I'm 81 years old and amazed at what I don't know.
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Noor
5.0 out of 5 stars Good
Reviewed in the United States on 29 May 2025
Format: PaperbackVerified Purchase
On time and well oackaged
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College!
4.0 out of 5 stars Good to read but difficult to understand
Reviewed in the United States on 19 December 2013
Format: PaperbackVerified Purchase
Concepts are not really summarized that well and stories are very long but overrall has all the information that you'll need to know.
2 people found this helpful
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Rebecca
5.0 out of 5 stars A Wonderful Book
Reviewed in the United States on 2 December 2012
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A fascinating analysis of indigenous perspectives on science, history and spirituality. A book to read and reread over and over again.
6 people found this helpful
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Richard Jefferson
5.0 out of 5 stars Get this book
Reviewed in the United States on 8 September 2015
Format: PaperbackVerified Purchase
A very well written review of Indian history and perspective on Native conserns.
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Nichlas Emmons
4.0 out of 5 stars Socio-political Issues of Native America
Reviewed in the United States on 28 April 2013
Format: PaperbackVerified Purchase
The works of Vine Deloria, Jr.are well-known and well-respected, but in my attempts to transition to other Indigenous thinkers, I tend to not include much of his work. If I did, though, then I would very well consider this book. It is a great source of information and provides much fodder for discussion and critical thinking about contemporary socio-political issues.
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Sam
4.0 out of 5 stars Four Stars
Reviewed in the United States on 14 April 2015
Format: PaperbackVerified Purchase
Used for school.
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The World We Used to Live In: Remembering the Powers of the Medicine Men eBook : Deloria Jr., Vine, Deloria, Philip J., Deloria, Philip J.: Amazon.com.au: Books

The World We Used to Live In: Remembering the Powers of the Medicine Men eBook : Deloria Jr., Vine, Deloria, Philip J., Deloria, Philip J.: 

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The World We Used to Live In: Remembering the Powers of the Medicine Men Kindle Edition
by Vine Deloria Jr. (Author), Philip J. Deloria (Preface, Other Contributor) Format: Kindle Edition


4.7 4.7 out of 5 stars (144)


Explore the ancient powers and spiritual traditions of Native American medicine men in this captivating collection of eyewitness accounts.

In The World We Used To Live In, beloved Native American scholar Vine Deloria Jr. unveils the realm of the spiritual, sharing fascinating anecdotes from tribes across the country. Discover healing miracles, sacred rituals, and the extraordinary abilities of medicine men, from moving the sun to controlling the weather. This compelling work, drawing upon a lifetime of scholarship, reveals:How ancient powers fit into our modern understanding of science and the cosmos
The enduring wisdom of Native American traditions
The strength future generations may draw from the old ways

For readers interested in Native American history, spirituality, and the intersection of ancient wisdom and modern science, this book offers a unique and insightful journey into a world where the spiritual and physical are deeply intertwined. Prepare to be awed and inspired by the power of Native American medicine men and their connection to the cosmos.




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V. Wolf

5.0 out of 5 stars Brilliant and Amazing
Reviewed in the United States on 13 April 2013

This is a brilliant and fascinating account of the mystical ways of the old shamans and medicine people in many native traditions. It is rare to find the kind of information De Loria shares here, and he is deeply respectful of these traditions. I am so grateful to have this historical record to validate the beauty and depth of native american spiritual traditions, and to show how vital they were to native survival and culture. Everyone should read this, it is great!





White Iron

5.0 out of 5 stars The World We Used To Live In: Remembering the Powers of the Medicine MenReviewed in the United States on 9 June 2011
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In his last writing, just as Nicholas Black Elk, the brilliant Vine Deloria Jr. returns to the "Ancient Way" and conjures up the miracles preformed by the "Medicine Men" and or "Holy Men" of many North American cultures! Using written accounts of the anthros and others in the predominant society, as well as Native accounts, Mr. Deloria reminds everyone that one could view "Miracles" in the Mystery of Turtle Island and that there were Masters of that Mystery in every Culture from the Atlantic to the Pacific;Arctic to Mexico and beyond! The book is ,as usual, well written and well put together and is meant to be a sweeping overview! I, for one, will miss his new insights and will have to revisit his works again and again ( which, fortunately, I can do since I own most of them )! You will be hard put to find a more insightful and balanced human being ( now through his writing alone since he has passed over the Star Road ) capable of an objective critique of the way the modern society has mistaken and distorted the reality of life on Turtle Island before during and after the " American Holocost "! This is a must read for anyone who loves this land and the people who are the living embodiments of the Ancient Wisdom! Finally, the book left me with the impression ( just an inkling, a slight hint ) that the Miracles, are still around us every day in the spiritual forms a Great Mystery always engenders and that when you open your mind to IT you will see the Masters are still being born and doing their deeds! Mitaque Oyasin!!

11 people found this helpfulReport



Anthony Hernandez Sr

5.0 out of 5 stars Beautiful, a must read.Reviewed in the United States on 3 September 2021
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One of my most favorite piece of native American literature, it brings pride to see one of my own capable of teaching others of our ways. Whenever I feel down I always read this book in it inspires me to do better.

5 people found this helpfulReport



Bibliophiledw

5.0 out of 5 stars Dreams & Powers & Medicine MenReviewed in the United States on 27 July 2014
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Vine Deloria, Jr. died just a few years ago and it's our loss. An amazing man and life. This book describes just how much, not only the American Indians lost, but all of us by the disappearance of a way of life so in touch with Mother Earth, Brother Animals, and, firstly, the Great Spirit or Great Mystery they called Wakan Tanka. This book recounts the stories of their Medicine Men and from many Nations. I accept the work of their Medicine Men as true bc they reminded me of two "weather" things my Irish mother taught me as a child and which I could do, also. I'd forgotten all about them. I absolutely believe in the Medicine of American Indians without understanding their "how" beyond knowing they were in touch with the Great Mystery - it was part of their life - for all the People, not just the Medicine Men. Who knows how much they could have offered us if they'd been allowed to and had we the humility to ask. Our Mother Earth would not be in its present state.

15 people found this helpfulReport



5/0

4.0 out of 5 stars Very Good Overview of the Medicine Man Role(s)Reviewed in the United States on 14 January 2014
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“The World We used to Live In”, remembering the powers of the Medicine Men by Vine Deloria Jr.

Deloria has pulled together a splendid array of reports, stories, observations, legends and accounts from a lengthy list of sources spanning the 1600s – early 1900s to show us the nature of the American Indian Medicine Men when they really were figures of power. It is some fascinating and though-provoking reading for anyone with a philosophical, theological or metaphysical bent.
It’s also Class A reading for anyone interested in the culture(s) of American Indian tribes. I recommend it to any such reader.
Deloria’s underlying premise is that the spirituality of today’s American Indian tribes is a lot like that of today’s Christian congregations – a lot of claimers but many fewer believers. He bemoans the fact that rituals, rites and ceremonies being preformed today are mostly of a perfunctory “walk-through” nature that doesn’t produce even a shadow of the spiritual power enjoyed by Medicine Men prior to the early 20th century. And, of course, he beseeches modern American Indians (and everyone) to try to recapture the spirituality of the past.

8 people found this helpfulReport



Patrick Moore LMT BA

5.0 out of 5 stars Reports of "Miracles" done by Native Americans of past centuries.Reviewed in the United States on 6 July 2015
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A collection of reports of the amazing deeds and perceptions of natives of the past. For this alone the book is worth the price.

This book is the original reports, rather than conclusions or interpretations of them. Deloria does have some comments but he mostly holds his tongue in this book. He is the gatherer rather than the interpreter here.

This book should be used in workshops and classes to begin an inquiry: assuming these reports are true, how did the people come to have the perceptions of things at a distance or in the future? How did they come to do things some would say are miraculous? The people themselves attributed these powers to Badger and Wakan Tanka and other beings outside themselves, animal beings, plant beings, the world being and the creator. If these deeds and perceptions were done before, could they be done again? What relationship with nature does one need to have to sense more than five senses worth? To influence elements to do things they don't usually do? This book should be alongside the gospels to begin a nondenominational study of "the miraculous".

25 people found this helpfulReport



M. Gill

5.0 out of 5 stars Outstanding ExamplesReviewed in the United States on 28 March 2021
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All cultures create the realities of their people, including modern science. In this book, Deloria presents glimpses of the realities of the North American Indian that are no less valid than those of the modern Western worldview. In fact, these realities make us more connected to ourselves, our communities, and the natural world. The accounts of the numerous spiritual events are instructive and remind us that, in the end, there is no true dichotomy between the physical and the spiritual.

2 people found this helpfulReport



D. R. Hamilton

5.0 out of 5 stars The World We Used to Live InReviewed in the United States on 22 May 2008
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This may be Vine Deloria's finest and most appreciable work. It is the kind of literary rarity that, when you realize the man has passed away, makes you weep that nothing more may be forthcoming from his genius. The collection of accounts and anecdotes is surprisingly complete to get his point across, namely, that the post-natural civilized world we live in today has forgotten something of great importance. The narrative is divinely inspired.

19 people found this helpfulReport
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From other countries


Carol L. Navarrete

5.0 out of 5 stars Spirituality....Not Just for Sunday MorningReviewed in the United States on 8 February 2008
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Anyone with an iota of knowledge about Vine Deloria Jr.'s scholarly background could accuse him of being a sentimental crack pot fallen prey to tall tales and rural legends. Finally someone who is not afraid to be taken for such has written about paranormal encounters with powers that actually exist beyond special effects studios. However, those who like to imagine that only THEIR cultural/ethnic group has been chosen will find it disconcerting that Native Americans have had an on-going relationship with God and spiritual forces for thousands of years. This is an unapologetic as well as unsensationalized account of personal experiences with the real powers of the world.

37 people found this helpfulReport



Kipp Laase

5.0 out of 5 stars Deloria strikes again! Another literary masterpiece by the master of expansive thinking.Reviewed in the United States on 7 October 2013
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Although he is no longer with us in this realm of human form, his spirit pervades and prevails as one of the greatest iconoclasts of Native American history and achievement. His writings have always had a special place in the heart of this young traveler. This book reveals so much that I'd often wondered about and I think of it as the pinnacle publication of his diverse career. May the drums and voices of thousands sing his praises.

-Kipp "Owl Bear" Laase

One person found this helpfulReport



Tad W. Cronn

5.0 out of 5 stars Fascinating insightsReviewed in the United States on 14 July 2021
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The author does a comprehensive job of outlining the deeply held beliefs and miraculous powers of Indian shamans, backing up the stories either eyewitness accounts. A must for anyone interested in Indian culture.
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Paul Talbot

4.0 out of 5 stars An interesting anthologyReviewed in the United States on 29 April 2017
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With little commentary, the author, in his final work, offers up a compendium of primary source material attesting to the powers utilized and displayed by the medicine men of old. This, of course, begs the question: "Why don't we see this anymore?".
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I AM JUST ME

5.0 out of 5 stars EXCELLENT 😍 SERVICEReviewed in the United States on 11 January 2021
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Soooo happy with the shape this book is in! Plus it arrived most quickly, HAPPY with the book and the service! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
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Candy L. Griffin

5.0 out of 5 stars Vine Deloria Jr. Remembering the owers of the Medicine MenReviewed in the United States on 6 September 2013
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I love anything Vine Deloria writes. He writes with a beautiful passion and clarity. The book is in near pristine condition and I received it very qyuickly from when the order was placed.
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Art Lady

3.0 out of 5 stars Slow!Reviewed in the United States on 10 February 2013
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I found the many narratives with no commentary very slow reading. It didn't pull together until the last chapter.
Some of the problem was the format. It was very difficult to check the endnotes, etc. I wish I had purchased the hard copy.

3 people found this helpfulReport



Lynda

4.0 out of 5 stars Four StarsReviewed in the United States on 23 October 2016
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good book
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Janice Beauvais

5.0 out of 5 stars Great read for all people all agesReviewed in the United States on 17 January 2020
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Valuable information
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JILL MATTHEWS

5.0 out of 5 stars The world we can live inReviewed in the United States on 2 November 2013
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The world we used to live in tells us about the world we could be living in.

We are taking the long way around evolution!
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tali

5.0 out of 5 stars Great Book!Reviewed in the United States on 5 April 2019
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Very good read!

One person found this helpfulReport



Jan W.

5.0 out of 5 stars excellent info and wonderful for all to readReviewed in the United States on 9 June 2017
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Superlative writing, excellent info and wonderful for all to read.
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S.T.S

5.0 out of 5 stars Great bookReviewed in the United States on 6 December 2016
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Vine Deloria, getting on in years and better with every page.
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FLYING EAGLE

5.0 out of 5 stars Beautiful book.Reviewed in the United States on 24 April 2017
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I loved this book, magical.
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Camilla Novelli

5.0 out of 5 stars COMMENTSReviewed in the United States on 17 December 2012
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Vine Deloria is a great writer in any case. Beside this, the colelction of firsthand witnesses is of great great value
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Danderson

5.0 out of 5 stars Great readReviewed in the United States on 5 August 2017
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A must read!
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Victoria Karns

1.0 out of 5 stars The book has magical powersReviewed in the United States on 3 November 2012
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Every time I start reading it I fall asleep. I am open to mystical occurrences but we are talking some wild stories here. The author criticizes society for commercializing Native American religion and in a sense making it a joke. Yet, the very action of writing this book encouraging people to take an interest in the Native American ways by tempting them with the powers they could attain is commercializing it.

7 people found this helpfulReport



Amazon Customer

5.0 out of 5 stars Five StarsReviewed in the United States on 12 February 2017
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Love this book
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June Edington

2.0 out of 5 stars I gave the book to my Nephew who liked it.Reviewed in the United States on 21 April 2016
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I could not get into the story line if there was one. I gave the book to my Nephew who liked it.
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About the author

Vine Deloria Jr.

54 books332 followers
Vine Victor Deloria, Jr. was an American Indian author, theologian, historian, and activist. He was widely known for his book Custer Died for Your Sins: An Indian Manifesto (1969), which helped generate national attention to Native American issues in the same year as the Alcatraz-Red Power Movement. From 1964–1967, he had served as executive director of the National Congress of American Indians, increasing tribal membership from 19 to 156. Beginning in 1977, he was a board member of the National Museum of the American Indian, which now has buildings in both New York City and Washington, DC.

Deloria began his academic career in 1970 at Western Washington State College at Bellingham, Washington. He became Professor of Political Science at the University of Arizona (1978–1990), where he established the first master's degree program in American Indian Studies in the United States. After ten years at the University of Colorado, Boulder, he returned to Arizona and taught at the School of Law.
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Community Reviews

5 stars
174 (52%)
4 stars
104 (31%)
3 stars
42 (12%)
2 stars
10 (3%)
1 star
1 (<1%)
Displaying 1 - 10 of 25 reviews
Profile Image for Zach.
135 reviews17 followers
May 27, 2018
I was keenly aware of not being the audience for this book-- Deloria's intent was clearly to convince a native audience of an ancient cosmic connection and set of abilities that have been lost. As an outsider, my inherent lack of connection with his thesis made it a difficult read.

On an anthropological level the book is fascinating and impeccable sourced. But the credulous tone Deloria takes towards the anecdotes he recounts (using someone's "impeachable character" as reason to take stories at completely face value, for instance) rubbed me the wrong way. There were times when glaring holes in his arguments got on my nerves-- for example, stories where the storyteller had every reason to lie or fabricate are completely glossed over-- but, again, I wasn't someone he was trying to convince in the first place.
2 reviews
February 8, 2011
I have read many books on Native American Legends and stories of the capabilities of the tribal medicine men, but this is the first book I have read that presents first hand accounts written by the Europeans who first came in contact with the different origional Nations of North America.
These first-contact Europeans witnessed the actions of the medicine men when they were still pure in their beliefs and religions, before becoming corrupted by the Christian faith.
Many of the first hand documents are from military personel, Jesuit priests and common people who were amazed and sometimes frightened by what they witnessed.
If you have any interest in Native American medicine men and Native American religions, you will certainly enjoy this book.
Profile Image for Emily.
339 reviews10 followers
Read
April 7, 2019
Felt pretty dense as it was essentially a compilation for primary sources, which I was not expecting! I imagine this book has a lot of good uses, and the foreword from Deloria's son was very moving.
Profile Image for Francesca Calarco.
360 reviews39 followers
December 8, 2018
If you are interested in learning about prominent stories surrounding medicine men of different U.S. indigenous groups, then The World We Used to Live In is a pretty solid source.

There are really great dreams, stories, and histories shared in this collection that are organized by spiritual themes. My only criticism would be a lack of context, especially in regards to specific tribal traditions. Stories presented in each chapter represent a multitude of groups from different regions, and given the personal nature of these accounts, I would have liked a little more exposition to better emotionally and culturally understand.

That said, it is an interesting collection. If you are interested in the specific topic, I would recommend it.
Profile Image for Kirk Plankey.
16 reviews4 followers
October 1, 2012
I really do Like Vine Deloria, but I just couldn't finish this book. If you interested in anecdotal stories and tales (a lot of them) and you are interested in the lore and history of the Medicine Men then perhaps this will work for you. I only made it to page 51 before I gave up. His philosophical works are favorites of mine but this one just seems to have little to no point at least none to me. I really hated to set this one down but after multiple tries over several months this one is just not going to make it for me.

Profile Image for Reba.
17 reviews2 followers
February 3, 2020
Absolutely brilliant! This book is a must read for anyone on the road to reconciliation & learning to understand Indigenous ways of knowing on Turtle Island.
Profile Image for Neil.
1,329 reviews15 followers
January 15, 2024
I read this for a class. It was very interesting. It is composed mostly of first-hand accounts recorded by non-Native individuals who observed events that they were unable to explain (and still cannot explain to this day outside of claims these events were made up, that the men were drugged or hypnotized, or anything but these events being real events). Some of the anecdotes were told to those recording the events; other anecdotes were recordings of first-hand experiences.

On the one hand, it offers interesting stories about Native American experiences, beliefs, and traditions, On the other hand, one's world view will impact how one interprets the stories told. The Native Americans believed the spiritual world was just as real and impactful as "the physical world", the world in which most people live, so there are very real truths and beliefs involved in and behind these stories. For most modern people, we will dismiss these stories as fantastical, farcical, and unbelievable. It is also interesting how easily we moderns can and will dismiss stories such as these as "not being true", yet these anecdotes were generally recorded by men who were otherwise well respected and believed for their training, their powers of observation, and their integrity. Not saying all of them, but a good portion of them, yet we readily dismiss events recorded by such men as being lies, tall tales, attempts to grab attention, or generally unbelievable. It is an interesting conundrum.

In any case, it was an interesting book. To be honest, I probably never would have read it were it not for my class. I may never read it again, but it was still an interesting textbook.

Profile Image for Kristine.
124 reviews1 follower
December 14, 2020
The first person narratives were fascinating. Since it's primarily an encyclopedic resource on shamanic work in various tribes, it's fairly dense reading but the breadth of research was incredible. I found the different shamanic approaches to be compelling and comforting . . . i know the "methods" are still passed down from generation to generation but imagine it's on the verge of disappearing; so, there was a tragic sense of loss for me throughout the reading.


35 reviews7 followers
May 18, 2018
I feel bad giving this book only 2 stars, but while the stories contained within it are fascinating, the way they’re presented - anecdote after anecdote - made it hard to read and I did struggle towards the end.
Displaying 1 - 10 of 25 reviews

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