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Tucker Confronts Mike Huckabee on America’s Toxic Relationship With Israel - YouTube

Tucker Confronts Mike Huckabee on America’s Toxic Relationship With Israel

Tucker Carlson

3,656,373 views  Premiered Feb 21, 2026  The Tucker Carlson Show

The Mike Huckabee interview, and the truth about America’s deeply unhealthy relationship with Israel.

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Chapters:

0:00 Why We Were Interrogated in Israel

25:38 Why Did Huckabee Meet With American Traitor Jonathan Pollard?

34:26 Has Huckabee Advocated to Extradite Sex Offenders Who Flee From the US to Israel?

40:26 Why Are There Still Classified Epstein Files?

46:22 Is the Israel of the Bible the Current Secular Government of Israel?

1:12:53 Is Israel's Christian Population Declining?

1:14:48 Who Has a Right to the Land of Israel?

1:32:09 The Killing of Christians in Gaza

1:44:43 Benjamin Netanyahu's Calls for Genocide

1:49:31 Huckabee Accuses Tony Aguilar of Lying

1:55:08 Fighting Wars on Israel's Behalf

1:55:51 Why Are 9-11 Files Still Classified?

1:57:18 Netanyahu's Many Visits to the White House

1:58:18 The Nuclear Weapons That Israel Stole

1:59:01 Why Is the US Sending Israel So Much Money?

2:00:50 Is Huckabee Okay With Israel Providing Free Abortions?

2:09:33 How Many Americans Support War With Iran?

2:14:52 Was the War on Iraq Really About 9-11?

2:18:55 Israel's Sabotaging of US Negotiations With Iran

2:21:47 How Many Journalists Has Israel Killed in Gaza?

2:22:56 Is Huckabee Concerned About the Persecution of Christians?

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Transcript

Why We Were Interrogated in Israel

We're about to play you an interview we did  with US Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabe two   days ago in Israel. In general, it's never worth  talking about the backstory behind an interview.  

It's kind of not the point. It makes it about the  interviewer, not the person being interviewed for  

one thing. For another, it's not that interesting  most of the time. Um, and for another, it's kind  

of off the record. you know, the other person  hasn't consented to you telling the story. So,  

in general, we don't do that. Who'd want to hear  that? Let the interview speak for itself. But in  

this case, we want to tell you just a few things  about how this interview came about because they   are pretty interesting, revealing, and now weirdly  relevant apparently. So, this interview with Mike  

Huckabe came about a couple of weeks ago um on  Twitter. One of our producers showed me, he said  

something to the effect of, "You're talking  to Middle Eastern Christians, Tucker Carlson.   Maybe you should talk to me. Why don't you come  do an interview?" And I paused for a minute.  

I thought in the past about trying to interview  Mike Huckabe, whom I've known for over 30 years   and worked adjacent to at Fox and I had mixed  feelings about it. Um, mostly because it's hard  

if you're me to interview Mike Huckabe because of  just the personal affect. to my cuckabe is jovial,  

comes off as friendly. He's a grandfather when  annoyed. I can be nasty in interviews. And so  

it's it takes a lot of self-control to interview  someone like Mike Huckabe. Not not cuz I hate him,  

but because it's hard to ask him tough questions  and not come off as a jerk, which I often am. So,  

but I thought in this case, yeah, I should  definitely do this. Um, for a bunch of   different reasons. mainly the United States is  moving toward a big war, a real war with Iran,  

a regime change war. Um, the biggest war we've  had since the invasion of Iraq in the spring  

of 2003. And Israel is driving that. We are  doing this at the behest, at the demand of the  

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. So, it  seems like now is the time for more Americans to   understand the dynamic between the US and Israel  and to call attention to that. And for another,  

Huckabee's behavior in the last year in Jerusalem  as the ambassador has been very very striking. He  

famously had a meeting with the most damaging  spy in American history. Um, and why did he do  

that? He hadn't been asked uh by anybody up  until two days ago, why did you do that? So,   I I wanted to be able to ask him that. Um, and so  we accepted and then began the usual negotiations  

about when and where the interview would take  place. And we were constrained because we weren't   expecting this. We wanted to do it quickly, but  we had tons of travel. So, we threw them a date,  

them being the American embassy, uh, we can do it  on this date. And they were very accommodating.   And then the question became, well, where do we  do it? And maybe a Christian holy site. We said,  

we've got to get in and out really quick. Got  to be back to do a bunch of other interviews,   but we've got this time frame. They said, "Well,  why don't you do it at the US embassy or maybe we  

set that?" Great. US embassy. So, the US embassy  is about an hour 55 minutes from the big airport  

in uh Israel, Bengarian. So, we said, "Okay, what  about security?" Now, at this time, the Israeli  

government, the prime minister included, were  attacking me in this show. Netanyahu suggested  

I was a Nazi, uh, for example. And so, we  thought, you know, how about security? Obviously,  

um not because the Israeli government necessarily  would do something bad, but because there are a   lot of people in Israel who think because they've  been told, you know, that I'm an anti-semite or  

a Nazi or want to kill Jews, this kind of crazy  overstatement. Um all untrue, obviously. Uh but  

it would be good to have security. And I should  say, uh having done interviews on six out of seven  

continents over 35 years, I'm not very security  conscious at all. never really feel uncomfortable,   but this seemed like a a prudent thing to do.  So, we were told by the embassy spokesman, "No,  

we're not going to provide security." And so, we  said, "Okay, I guess we'll get private security,  

but could we get someone from the embassy to  ride in the car with us from the airport to the  

interview?" And we were told, "No, could  we get what they call a control officer,   just an American with us, an offic, you know, in  an official capacity as a embassy employee with  

us?" No. quote, "For legal reasons, we can't do  that." So, I thought, "Well, that's very strange."  

And then they said, "But instead, we're turning  you over to the Ministry for Foreign Affairs,  

MFA, and they're going to arrange everything in  Israel." Well, this was within 24 hours of the  

Deputy Foreign Minister, Sharon Haskell, releasing  a video calling me an anti-semite and an enemy of   Israel. This was the person who the embassy was  telling us was going to handle all of our travel.  

So it was at this point that I just called I  called the spokesman from for the US embassy in  

Israel and I said okay I'm an American citizen  responding to an invitation from the American  

ambassador to Israel and by the way I'm the son of  US ambassador so I have some sense not an expert   obviously but I have some sense of how this works  and I think that the US ambassador has discretion  

to send somebody from his office to the airport  to accompany someone in. I think that's right. And  

if it's not right, tell me what law you're talking  about, what legal reason you're talking about that   would prevent that. And now you're sending me over  to a government official who's been calling me a  

Nazi. That's the person in charge of getting us  to the embassy. Like, what is going on here? And  

the embassy spokesman, who's totally nice, said,  "Well, this was the decision of someone called   David Brownstein. He's the DCM, the number  two guy in the embassy." And I said, "Well,  

put him on a text exchange. Like, what is going on  here?" And so Branstein got on and didn't answer  

the question, but basically said, well, okay,  let's just do the interview at the airport in the   diplomatic reception area at the airport. Okay. I  said, um, we're going to be flying in from Europe,  

uh, and we had to be in and out really quickly,  so at great expense, we chartered a plane,   which I never do cuz I'm cheap. Um,  but we did. And so then I said to them,  

"Okay, I want to send you uh the flight  information, tail number, flight number, route,  

um and I want you to pass that on to the Israeli  military just so you know they don't mistake us  

for an Iranian drone or something." I mean, not to  be paranoid, but again, this is probably the most   violent country in the world, Israel. Is there a  country in the world where a higher percentage of  

the population has held a gun or shot someone?  I mean, I don't know the answer, but this is a   country uh famously waging a sevenfront war  with all of its neighbors, you know. So,  

this is also the country that bombed the USS  Liberty knowing, we know this from NSA intercepts,  

that it was an American ship. So, don't, you know,  just send the military our flight information and  

uh, you know, we can all just sort of know it's on  the record and we can all calm down a little bit.  

No, they said the US embassy said, "No, this  is your flight is not a a matter of concern  

to the Israeli military." I said, "Okay, now  now you're making me uncomfortable. Isn't the  

airspace of Israel the purview of the Israeli  military? Aren't they in charge of maintaining  

the integrity of their airspace? When you fly over  the country of Israel or any country, its military  

keeps track of you because that's their job. So,  why wouldn't you send our flight information to   the Israeli military? You're making me nervous.  I sent this exchange. I took a a screenshot of it  

and sent it to a bunch of people, including in the  US government um because I'm not a paranoid person   and I'm not a jumpy person. I said, "Is this weird  behavior?" Yeah, it's really weird behavior. All  

of them said that. So, I got pretty aggressive and  just said, "Look, you got to do this." Okay. and  

they to their credit got back to us and said yes  we will we will do that but I just thought that  

was completely bizarre and menacing by the way  now at the same time and I think this is relevant  

certainly it goes to motive I was attempting to  set up a meeting as I have been for the past 3   months with the prime minister of Israel Benjamin  Netanyahu who I've dealt with a lot in the past  

um and who denounced me as a Nazi uh in public  a member of the woke reich And why was I trying  

to do that? Not an interview. I knew he wouldn't  sit for an interview. Um but I wanted just to meet   with him in person. One, to show that I'm willing  to go to Israel. I don't hate Israel as a country.  

Um but two, just to to say directly to him, this  is bad. This should be deescalated. This kind  

of rhetoric doesn't help anybody. Calling people  calling me specifically a Nazi and an anti-semite  

when you know that I'm not. By the way, if I  was, I would just admit it. I've said many times,   I think anti-semitism is immoral. It's against  my religion, just as hating any group on the  

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code to claim this outstanding offer. Um, and  so I really pushed hard for this meeting and I  

called a lot of people who know him and who are  in regular contact with him. In fact, I went to  

go see some of those people directly. Please,  can you help me get a sit down for 5 minutes  

with Benjamin Netanyahu and I probably called or  met with six, seven, eight, maybe more people on  

this question. People in official capacities,  people in the Israeli government. I know I know   a number of people in the Israeli government,  people in Israel, a friend of mine in California  

who knows him. I mean, I really really tried and I  did so for two reasons. Um, one, because there was  

a threat to my family, uh, the Israeli government  and Netanyahu himself tried to punish two members  

of my family. I won't be more specific, but  actually punish two members of my family because   he, as he has said in public many times, believes  in blood guilt. Amalecch. You know, when someone  

commits a crime against you, you punish not  just him, but his family, his bloodline. There's   no idea that's less western than that, more  anti-Christian than that. Christians reject that.  

Um Netanyahu doesn't. That's why he's talking  about Amalcch. And he was going after my family,  

literally. Uh so I felt very threatened by that.  But moreover, I think it's bad for my country to  

have people using that kind of language. Round  them up, bring them to the camps, gas chambers,  

Nazis, anti-semitism. It scares the heck out of  people. It makes people crazy and hysterical. And  

certainly in my case, none of that is true. I hate  collective punishment. I hate attacking people on  

the basis of their bloodline. I hate anti-semitism  and anti-white racism and all of this, any kind of  

racism, period. And I've said that a lot. So using  that kind of language against someone who is not  

fundamentally your enemy who just in my case I  want Christians in areas controlled by Israel to  

be treated with dignity to have rights and I don't  want the US government involved in a war a regime  

change war with Iran. Those are my priorities and  I've said them out loud. I have no secret agenda.  

So to attack me as a Nazi for saying that suggests  a total unwillingness um to compromise. You know,  

anyone who doesn't agree with us 100% must be  destroyed. His family must be attacked. My family  

um and must be written off as a Nazi. Well,  when you do that, it makes people hysterical.  

It increases the temperature to a point that,  you know, someone's going to get hurt if you   keep talking that way. And it's just bad. It's bad  for the United States. it's bad for the world. So,  

I wanted to deliver that message. Um, I  finally wind up wound up talking to a guy   called Yorum Hazonei who is an Israeli who  famously organizes uh the American conserv  

national conservatism conferences. And I said to  him, look, you're having a national conservatism  

conference in Jerusalem uh this summer. You  asked me to speak at the first, I think the  

first national conserv conservatism conference  in the United States and I did. Obviously,   I believe in national conservatism, America first.  I think every nation should put its own people  

first. That's why you have governments. Um, and  I would like to speak at this one. And moreover,   I would like you to ask your friend Benjamin  Netanyahu to meet with me. And we had this sort of  

long back and forth. And it was, "No, you cannot  speak at the National Conservatism Conference   because you're an anti-semite." "No, I'm not." I  said, "Yes, you are," he said. And I said, "Well,  

I really would like to speak to BB to kind of  deescalate this." and he said, uh, it would not be  

in his political interest to meet with you. That's  almost verbatim what he said. Uh, therefore, no.  

So then I realized, you know, you're dealing with  people who are unreasonable, who are inflexible,  

who are in fact fanatical. Uh, and then add to  that, of course, that my tax dollars are paying  

them. You know, it's all pretty distressing. So  that was the backdrop um behind our very brief  

and highly intense trip to Israel. So we show up  on Wednesday, fly in from Europe again at great  

expense. Um and show up at the diplomatic terminal  of Bengurian airport where this interview is going  

to take place which is bizarre in itself. Filthy  building. The windows are so dirty in the terminal  

you can't see out them barely. There's like  exposed drywall. The whole thing is depressing and  

grim. There's litter outside. Like what is this?  This is the diplomatic terminal in Israel. Um I  

thought that was very strange having been in a lot  of diplomatic terminals. I've never seen a rattier   one. We go in and Huckabe's there and of course  he's totally friendly as he always is. um very  

very friendly guy and uh cheerful and we sort of  chat and the whole place is filled with these guys  

in t-shirts, thuggish looking guys in t-shirts who  are some kind of security. So we do the interview,  

you're about to watch it. Um it's very long at  2 and a half hoursish and I try my hardest to be  

friendly. Uh I think I kind of succeeded. You can  judge for yourself. Um, but you I really got the  

sense and again you can decide as you watch it  that uh Huckabe was not well able to answer any  

of the questions um but also not really in charge.  You really got the feeling of a guy sort of trying  

his best to to repeat the talking points but very  constrained like unable to say certain things not  

because those things might harm the interest  of the US government. He was happy to attack,  

for example, the US military and say they're more  brutal than the Israeli military. Okay. Um but  

unwilling to say certain things because they might  reflect poorly on the Israeli government. And you  

sort of thinking about this for a second. You're  like, "Wait, you're the US ambassador. You're our   representative to a foreign country. Why is your  red line criticism of that country? Shouldn't you  

be representing us?" And it was very obvious he  was representing the Israelis. Obvious. And again,  

you can judge for yourself. But anyway, so we do  this interview. It was cordial. And at the end,  

uh, we're set to fly out. We have a time. We  have to get out. And the plane is sitting right   outside. And we're ready to go. And for some  reason, the Israelis still have our passports.  

There are five of us um there. And four of us  are flying out on this plane. One's flying out  

commercial with our gear. So my business partner  and I were standing there. We we've never left  

the airport, never went anywhere. But our two  producers have spent the night in the night   before in Tel Aviv, and they're called into rooms  and given the third degree. Now, keep in mind,  

they're about to get on a plane and leave. In  fact, we're late. We have to get out of there. We   have a slot to get out. And security, whoever this  is, won't won't let them go. So, I don't really  

know what's going on at this point. I'm like,  "Where are our guys? We got to get out of here."   So, one of them comes out and he says, "That  was the weirdest experience of my life. They  

asked me questions about the interview.  Who did you speak to?" Keep in mind,   this was like 8 ft from where we did the  interview. Well, the US ambassador Mike Huckabe,  

what did you talk about? Why did you ask those  questions? Was it a hostile interview? Of course,  

everything in the diplomatic terminal is taped.  Everything in Israel is taped. It's a police   state. It's a surveillance state. Obviously, you  go to Israel, they put software on your phone.  

Everybody knows this, okay? They're constantly  spying on you more than probably any other   country. And so they know the answers to these  questions, but they're asking my producer like,  

"Where do you work? How many people work there?  Do you go to the office? Where is the office? What  

are their names?" They're doing like an intel  op and humiliation exercise on my producer.  

This isn't security. We're leaving right now. And  they're holding his passport. The interrogator is  

holding the passport in his hand as he's asking  these questions. So he's telling me this and I'm   I said, "This is the most outrageous thing I've  ever heard. Puckabe's gone by this point. You're  

an American citizen who's just had a conversation  with the US ambassador and some thug is demanding  

details of that conversation and I hope you didn't  answer." And he's like, "No, I I didn't. I don't  

know what to say." Meanwhile, our last guy, our  the youngest man who was traveling with us, our  

last producer is still in a room being questioned.  So, I pull over one of the guys and said,   "I I we got to get out of here." So, I don't know  what this is about. It's outrageous. And you know,  

there's nothing I can do about this point, but we  got to go. And this woman comes up to me and says,   "Look, let's just go. We're going to bring you to  the plane and he'll come later." I said, "No, it's  

my producer. He's being interrogated. ask totally  over-the-top, fully inappropriate questions that  

have nothing to do with security at all. You know,  pull up your website, show us your text exchanges  

with other people on your staff, what what are  your politics like? And again, what did you say to  

the US ambassador and what did he say back to you?  Those are not relevant questions if you're trying  

to keep your country secure. Those are intel  questions and they're over the top. And I said, I  

want this guy out now. Let's go. You know, we got  to go. Oh, and they said, "No, no, just leave him   here. We'll bring him to the plane later." Twice  they told me that. Just leave your guy behind. No,  

I don't think so. So, I was enraged by this. Um,  get on the plane, we get a text from a reporter  

who somehow knew that this had happened. I have  no idea how. I had no interest in publicizing it,  

actually. Um, there was, you know, a a long  trail that showed that the US embassy had been  

coordinating against us in a in a public relations  battle before we even got there. You know,  

they were leaking that we we demanded to do it  at the airport because we were afraid to go into   Israel. We're cowards. Okay. We're cowards, right?  Um, and so I just said to the reporter by text,  

you know, they pulled my guys into a room  interrogating them. This is outrageous,   etc., etc., etc. The interesting thing is I never  heard from Huckabe or anybody to this moment  

from the US embassy about what security did to my  producers. They didn't ask us and instead Huckabe  

went out and called me a liar. So, it raises again  the question, who exactly is Huckabe working for?  

We're American citizens in a foreign country.  He's our ambassador. He represents our country.   We pay his salary, but he's taking the side of the  foreign government without even calling to say,  

"Hey, what happened to you at the airport? Did  you get hassled? Did your guys get hassled?" No.   He just immediately repeats their lies. without  even consulting us. So like what are we looking  

at here? We're looking at the reality which is if  you're an American in Israel, you can be certain  

that your government will take the side of the  Israeli government and not your side. And really,  

is that so different from the experience of  Americans in the United States? Can you be sure  

that your government will take your side over the  Israeli government? No, of course not. will always   take the Israeli government's side over yours. And  that's the core problem. Even if if you support a  

war with Iran, I think we really the most pressing  issue for Americans is that we kill the Ayatollah  

or whatever, you still have a fair expectation  that your government because it is yours,  

you pay for it. It exists to serve you and for  no other reason. and you have an expectation   that your government will take your side against  a foreign government. But the daily lived reality,  

the obvious truth visible to every single American  is that's the opposite of reality. In fact,  

if you criticize Israel in your country, your  government will work to censor you. If there's  

a standoff between you and BB, you know whose side  your government's going to take? BB's side. That  

is not sustainable. That is too humiliating. It's  too clearly an inversion of the natural order.  

Your government exists for you, not for a foreign  government. But that's not how we live in this  

country or in Israel. So that's what we learned.  And one last thing, the Israelis apparently went  

may probably with the help of Mike Huckabe went  to uh the surveillance tape inside the diplomatic  

terminal and pulled some clip and they're of  course getting all their little bots online to   promote it of me with my arm around somebody to  show that actually I'm lying about what happened.

That person was our driver who drove  us from the plane to the terminal,   a short drive. Very nice guy, good guy, Israeli  guy. And um right when we arrived and he said,  

"Could I get a picture?" Of course. He's a  nice man. So I just put my arm around him,   took a picture. That's what that is. That was  before the interview. It was before uh our  

producers were hassled by the thugs um and asked  ridiculous questions. It was before any of this  

happened. So that's just uh another installment  of the propaganda war. I thought we'd give you   the backstory on that. People seem to be more  inflamed, not just emotionally, but physically,  

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Ambassador Mike Huckabe. I hope it's informative.  Ambassador, thank you very much for having us,  

Why Did Huckabee Meet With American Traitor Jonathan Pollard?

for inviting me. I was grateful to be invited.  Thank you. I I was grateful cuz I don't like all   the the name calling. I've engaged in some of  it. I want to apologize for that. I don't but I  

in general, I don't think people should be going  immediately to motive calling each other Nazis   or anti-semmites. I said I hate the Christian  Zionists. I lost control of myself. Of course,  

I don't. I've apologized for that. I  have problems with my anger. And so,   I just want to apologize to you since you are a  Christian Zionist. You and I have known each other  

for over 30 years. Over 30 years. That is totally  true. Back when you were in Little Rock. So, yes,  

the newspaper. It's why I wanted us to have a  conversation, talk to each other and not about   each other. And I appreciate very much you're  coming here to of course. And I'm only staying  

a couple hours unfortunately because I kind of  shoehorned this in. But I hope that I'll be back  

soon and I hope that I can come back soon cuz I  want to I actually like despite what you may hear,  

I actually like the country. I've been here a lot  and there are a lot of things I love about it and   um and I want to talk to people in it for like  a week. Good. And get a better sense of it. Um  

so I want to ask you, everyone I've talked to in  in preparation for this has said the same thing.  

Jonathan Pard like can exp I'm just gonna show the  the name to you and have you explain. No, I'm glad  

you asked. You know, interestingly, there's been  a lot of things about it. You're the first person  

who has asked me about it, which I find amazing.  So, I'm glad you did. Really? Yeah. The very  

first. Well, it's better to like hear it. Sure.  I met Jonathan Pard two times. Once I was making  

a speech in Jerusalem. This has been a few years  ago. His wife was still alive at the time. And he  

was there. and someone introduced me to him and  his wife. I said hello to them. That was it. Hi,  

nice to meet Esther, his wife. And that was it.  I went and made my speech and I left. Um later  

his wife passed away uh here in Israel. And I  sent him a note and just said, "I'm sorry to  

hear about your wife." I remember meeting her at  the hotel and uh sorry to hear it. He then asked,  

"Could he come and see me?" He wanted to come and  thank me for being kind to him. Um, he came to the  

embassy. I think we met for maybe 30 minutes. We  had a nice, pleasant visit. The funny thing was  

the New York Times reported that it was a secret  meeting. Tucker, if you've ever been to the US  

Embassy, you would know there's no such thing  as a secret meeting at the US Embassy. There   are cameras everywhere. You walk through Marines,  you walk through security, you walk through the  

front office, and there's a dozen or more people  that are going to check you out when you come. And  

before you get there, you're going to have to give  us your passport information. You're going to have   to be vetted and screened and all of this stuff.  So, the idea that it was secret was ludicrous. The  

whole idea is, look, Jonathan Pard did something  that was terribly wrong. Um, he sold secrets. He  

shouldn't have done it. He was sentenced to 30  years in prison and spent 30 actually was I think  

yeah I think he was sentenced to maybe more than  30 years but he spent 30 years in prison. Most  

people convicted of something similar uh which  was one count I believe would have spent two to  

four but he spent 30. I don't have a problem with  him spending 30 because I think what he did was   despicable. I'm not defending anything about what  he did, but even people like the former director  

of the CIA, um, a number of other senators  on the Senate Foreign Relations of the Senate  

Intel Committee said that he should be allowed  to leave and move to Israel if he wanted to. So,  

it to me was not as big a deal that I had this  basically courtesy meeting. He wanted to thank me  

for being nice to him when his wife died. That's  pretty much the you advocated for his release when  

you ran for I remember it in 2011 long before he  had served 30 years. And I agree with you that  

there are a lot of people languishing in prison,  you know, in our country and in this country,   many countries, um, you know, for longer periods  than they deserve. And I think it's a Christian  

impulse to to want to see them free. But this  was the greatest traitor in modern American  

history who sold our battle plans sold our battle  plans against the Soviet Union, our main enemy  

in the Cold War to the Israeli government, which  according to our Reagan CIA director, Bill Casey,  

then gave them to the Soviet Union. So this was  the most profound betrayal of the United States  

in my lifetime. Why advocate for that guy's  release before he serves his full sentence?  

If that were the case in 2011, it would have  been because I had a number of friends that  

uh suggested that he had more than served time  and he didn't want to live in the US anymore. He   wanted to live in Israel and uh but my association  with him again I had never met him until I met him  

in Jerusalem at a hotel. That was the first time  I had ever encountered him. I'm friends with a  

million bad people or I've talked to a million  bad people. I'm sitting here with you. I mean,  

come on. I mean, Jesus hate with tax collectors.  So I trust me I am do not judge people who are  

friends or know or enjoy the company of immoral  people because it's not an endorsement of their  

immoral behavior. Pard is different I think once  you become US ambassador the representative of  

the president of the United States in the United  States of America in a foreign country and then   you invite not only the most damaging betrayer  in our lifetimes but also a guy who continues to  

advocate for betrayal. So he gave an interview,  as I know you know, in 2021 to Israeli media in  

which he said, "I would encourage Jewish  Americans with security clearances to spy  

for MSAD against their own country, the United  States, because," and I'm pretty much quoting him,   "All Jews should have dual loyalty." Mhm. That's a  I mean, that's not repentance. That's not someone  

who feels bad about what he did. That's someone  who's encouraging American Jews to betray their   country. That's pretty heavy, don't you think? Oh,  I do and I disagree with that wholeheartedly. I I  

think let's remember it was President Trump who  probably facilitated his uh departure and uh I'm  

certainly supportive of President Trump. I think  you are. And Per's not. He called him a madman  

after your meeting. That's why I say Per is is  not for me the real issue. It was the fact that he  

did something that was despicable. I'm not denying  that. Of course he did. And he paid dearly for it.  

30 years in prison and he should have that. That's  what he should have done. There's no no question   about that. But why meet with him in the US  embassy? Your colleagues said they were shocked.  

They said who were the colleagues that said they  were shocked. Quoted on background in the New   York Times. I think the meeting was in August. I  this could all be fake. That's why I'm asking you.  

Well, the same New York Times said it was a secret  meeting. And I'm telling you there's no such thing   as a secret meeting in the US embassy. Do you see  why the US ambassador hosting a convicted betrayer  

of his own country who's encouraging Americans  to continue to betray their country would seem   shocking? Well, I would say that it wasn't that  I you make it sound like I'm hosting a meeting.  

I simply met with him. I meet with people all the  time. Some of You just walk in without a No, they  

have to have an appointment. Of course they do.  Oh, so it is hosting him then, I think. Well, I   don't know if it was hosting, but it was certainly  he was able to come to the US embassy to have  

a meeting at his request. I did, and frankly, I  don't regret it. I I met with a lot of people over  

the course of the time I've been here, and we'll  meet with a lot more. Um, that's it. So, if you  

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Has Huckabee Advocated to Extradite Sex Offenders Who Flee From the US to Israel?

There have also been and there continue to be  dozens and dozens and dozens of sex offenders,  

accused sex offenders from the United States who  fled to Israel, including one recently, an Israeli   government official who was caught trying to  molest a 15-year-old girl and fled to Israel and  

is not going back to the United States to stand  charges for attempted molestation of a child. Have   you advocated for the Israeli government to return  him to the United States? I'm not familiar with  

that case. It has not come to us at the embassy.  So, I'm not aware. Is this the person in Nevada?  

That is correct. Okay. County, I would imagine.  So, yeah, I heard about it, but I heard about it   through open source media. It was never something  that was presented to us, but I would have no  

problem with uh him being extradited back to  the US. You're the president's and our country's  

representative in the state of Israel. So, I think  it would fall to you to advocate with your friend,   the prime minister, to say, "Wait a second. We  have a very close relationship. We're obviously  

the single largest source of outside funding for  this country. How can you take an accused child  

molester and shield him from American justice?  Send him back to the United States?" Have you   ever had that conversation? No. Because the prime  minister would not be the proper person. That may  

be right. pardon my ignorance but that would deal  with an extradition. It would go through their uh  

court system and so the prime minister is separate  very similar to what we have in the US where there   is a separation of powers. So it would go through  uh something other than the prime minister. Have  

you advocated to the courts to judges to anybody  in the Israeli justice system? There has never  

been a request for me to engage in that. I I  would be happy to do it if if the White House sent  

a message to me. I do work for the president. I  serve it as pleasure. If anyone at the White House  

were to say to me, would you please go and make a  case for it? But probably if that were to happen,  

it wouldn't come through the embassy as much as it  would likely come from the Department of Justice   at the US in DC. They would make the request. They  might involve us, but they very likely would not.  

Does it seem strange to you that people accused of  child molestation in the United States are allowed  

to have refuge in our within the borders of our  closest ally? How? That doesn't make sense to  

me. Well, I would say that if you've molested  an American child, shouldn't you be required   to It's an allegation. Let's be clear. One of  the things about our system of jurist prudence,  

you're innocent until you're proven guilty beyond  a reasonable doubt. So if the charges are there,   should he be extradited? I would say so. The  charges are there. Yeah. Okay. So they should be,  

but that's a Justice Department decision and  they're the ones who should be pursuing it. To   my knowledge, they haven't. They certainly haven't  engaged the US embassy over. Why would the Israeli  

government harbor fugitives from justice in the  United States? I'm not sure that there dozens and  

dozens and dozens. In fact, there's an Israeli  group that keeps track of them that is dedicated  

Jewish Israeli group dedicated to combating the  molestation of children and keeps a long list   and any you can look it up and I would I hope  you're not saying that you think the Israelis  

support the molestation of children. Obviously,  I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the Israeli   government allows shields Yeah. accused child  from justice in I'm not sure I could say that  

that's something that is provable. I don't know.  But I am not aware that the Israeli government   is shielding people. You obviously want to sleep  well and fashionably Brooklyn bedding can help.  

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they are. And I'll give you a And I just want to  make sure that I pronounce this this man's name   correctly. It's Tom, I believe, Alexanderich. Um,  I think that's right. And I've written it down,  

but of course my handwriting is so terrible I  can't uh read it. But yes, he is an Israeli,  

I believe, cyber security official who was  at a conference in Las Vegas last year and  

was caught up in a sting uh designed to catch  people soliciting sex from children. He was  

one of a number of people arrested for this. He  was arraigned and charged and then 2 days later  

he fled to Israel and did his first hearing by  Zoom. He was allowed for some reason to leave for  

a foreign country having already been charged  for a attempted molestation of a child and he  

remains here now and the is and there have been  many news stories about this and I just wonder   if you would ask the Israeli government to send  to put him on a plane and send him back to face  

justice for attempting to molest an American  child. It it doesn't seem complicated. No,   I wouldn't mind doing that, but I want to find out  if the Justice Department in the US has already  

sought to extradite him. Is there anything in  process? I don't know. Why wouldn't they seek to   extradite? I have no idea. That's a question for  the Justice Department. I have many questions for  

Why Are There Still Classified Epstein Files?

the Justice Department. Like, why are millions of  Epstein files still classified? Why do you think  

that is? I have no idea. I haven't kept up with  that. I've never met the man. I don't know him.  

You haven't kept up with the Epstein disclosure?  I mean, only from a distance. I'm 6,000 miles  

but there's no question that he had extensive  contact with CIA. I think you said it a turning  

point event. Everybody knows Jeffrey Epstein. I  said everyone thinks and it turns out everyone was  

right that he did have I'm not sure everyone was  right or everyone thinks. Okay, but you said that  

I was lying and I don't want to make this about I  don't think I said you were lying, Tucker. I don't   recall. I'm just saying why don't we release  all the files and then we don't need to guess.  

I got no problem with that. Go ahead. it. Well,  because you weighed in on it and said that this  

was not true when of course I said there was no  evidence. Well, there's quite a bit of evidence,  

but you haven't apparently bothered to read any  of the files. Is that what you're saying? I have  

not read the Epstein files. Apparently, you have  Well, they're on the internet. But when you say  

that there's that everybody knows that Jeffrey  Epstein was a massage, that everyone believes   that. I don't think everybody does. I don't know.  Oh, well, everyone knows that he had contact with,  

and by the way, not just Israeli intelligence,  American intelligence, which is more much more  

distressing for me. I'm not Israeli. I'm American.  I don't want my government having any contact with   someone like Jeffrey Epste. So, the shame neither  is on the United States, as far as I'm concerned,  

just to be totally clear about that. Everyone's  very sensitive about the Israel connection,   not at all sensitive about the US connection,  which I find very revealing. We should care about  

what our government does first, I think. But since  you weighed in on it and said there's no evidence,  

I'm surprised that since that evidence has been  open to the public for a month, since you've  

already weighed in publicly on this question,  that you've made no effort to evaluate that  

evidence. Why is that? I've just told you I was  certainly not aware that there were some specific  

uh allegations. I knew about the former prime  minister um but I don't know him. I'm not sure  

I ever met him in my many times. You know, I've  been to Israel over a hundred times since 1973.   The first time I came here was 1973, July. And  uh that's almost 53 years of coming and going to  

this country. So, I know the country well. I know  a lot of people here, but I don't know everything.  

And I don't know everybody, but I do know a lot  of people. Of course. No. And I and I can see  

your love for it. And I I think that's great.  I but I'm talking about the US government and   its responsibility to you know there's a lot of  complaint about conspiracy theories and everyone  

you know he's a hater everyone's assigning motive  but there's a way to end these conversations very  

quickly with facts and I'm highly confused by  have you brought this up to the president? Uh  

no I don't I don't work for him. I've said this  many times. You don't work for him, but you you go   to the White House and you see people there. You  and JD Vance are very good friends. So, have you  

brought this up to them? Because I have brought  this up in public. It's not on my portfolio,   but apparently it's highly very strongly on your  mind and I'm a significant concern for me. Should  

be for everybody. But if well there's an there  is a charged child molester. But I'm saying if  

you are very involved in the details of this and  you think it's the US government that's hiding  

and shielding somebody then bring it up to the  people. But you don't I don't think that I know   it because the justice department has said we have  millions of documents we're not releasing. Why are  

they not releasing them? I I'm asking you as a  US government official. Well, but a government   official at the embassy in Jerusalem that has not  one thing to do with the Justice Department and  

what they're investigating on any given day unless  it involves and I don't want to argue or talk in   circles, but you were the one who brought it up  and said it's absolutely not true. I was only  

responding to what I heard you say. Okay. But now  you know there's evidence and we can settle this  

debate. you haven't looked at the evidence and  you're not pushing for the release of the total   corpus of evidence and I'm confused because I want  to believe that your goal is to get to the truth  

and the fastest way to do that is by releasing  the evidence. Don't you think you suggest that   I can release the evidence? I'm suggesting you  could call for it right now. Well, I fine call  

for it. I would let's let's have it all open. I  thought it was being all opened up for everything.   Once it's open, I hope you'll read it because  it's it's really interesting and then it puts  

to rest a lot of the the debate and it ends the  name calling because we can say here it is right  

there and we don't have to call people names. We  can just assess the documents. Let me ask you,  

would you bring it up? I hope you will bring it  up to people at the White House. I've brought   I've brought I'm bringing it up right now. I'm  bringing it up now and I'm asking I just want  

to say this one last time as the US ambassador to  Israel. I hope that you will make a formal request  

to the Israeli government to send every accused  sex offender in this country back to the United  

States to face justice. And I don't understand  why that hasn't been done. I I'm confused. Well,  

we'll try to clear up all the confusion that we  have. Well, if someone's been accused of trying   to molest a child, I think it's then then  certainly and I'll check with the Justice  

Department because it is a DOJ issue and it would  be handled through DOJ the US to the court systems  

in Israel. That's how it would be handled. But the  first step is the Israeli government saying yes,   we will allow you to extradite this person  back. The person is being shielded by the  

government. That's why the person's here.  That's why he fled here, so he wouldn't have   to stand trial for trying to molest a child.  I want to get to the as I said at the outset,  

Is the Israel of the Bible the Current Secular Government of Israel?

I said something awful that I regret that my wife  barked at me about. Um, I lashed out at Christian  

Zionists and evangelicals and I'm just want to say  again that I'm sorry. Uh, I've always liked them  

because they're pro-life and they're also really  nice people. So, for the third time, I'm sorry   that I said that. I think part of my problem was  I don't understand the theology and you are not a  

fake Baptist minister. You're an actual minister.  You had a church for many years. You're an actual   theologian. So, and I mean this with sincerity.  I hear people say those who bless Israel will  

be blessed. I know it's a reference to Genesis.  I don't understand the connection between that  

concept and modern Israel and the geopolitical  world. And so I'm going to stand back and and  

let's first define because you know from my days  as a debater in high school and college one of the   things I knew you didn't start the debate till you  defined the terms. Amen. Let's define the terms.  

Thank you. What is what is a Christian Zionist?  What does that mean to you? What does it mean?  

I don't know. It's the people who call me a Nazi  for asking what Israel means. I mean that's kind   of my I don't even know. But here's the point. If  you say a Christian Zionist is a person who has  

a brain virus and is guilty of heresy, that's  a pretty big charge. I know. I shouldn't have  

made it. I shouldn't have made it. I made it out  of anger and ignorance. And and I'm Christian,   I think we can agree, is somebody who follows  Jesus Christ. Exactly. Has a personal relationship  

with Jesus Christ, believed in his death,  burial, resurrection, has repented of one's sins,  

and they've accepted him as one savior. Was that  fair? Christian. Define that Zionist. A Zionist  

simply means a person who believes that the Jewish  people have a right to have a homeland where they  

have security and safety. Did you believe that  the Jews have a right to live in Israel? Do you  

believe that Jews have a right to live in Israel?  I that would be a Zionist. That's all a Zionist  

is. I have a million questions about what all  of those terms mean. Yeah. But conceptually,  

I wish Israel no harm. I don't want to see I'm  very You want them to have a a a place where  

they can live with safety. Let me So I I saw this  recently in an extremely telling exchange between  

the lieutenant governor of Texas who I know and  I've always liked and a woman I don't know, never  

met who's on the Religious Liberty Commission  or something. And she said, "I'm a Catholic, but  

I'm not a Zionist." and they had this ferocious  exchange and he kept saying and everyone on the  

panel seemed to keep saying you have to believe  in Israel's right to exist which I've never kind  

of questioned just for the record but it did  raise two questions I think are really important   and I hope you'll answer them one is where does  that right come from I would say it comes from  

essentially you could say it comes from the Bible  I would say that it does but it comes also from a  

long iteration of historical precedents going to  the Alford Declaration of 1917. It comes from the  

League of Nations 1927. It comes from the United  Nations 1947. The Declaration of Independence  

of the Israel State in May of 1948. They were  immediately attacked. They won the war. They were  

attacked again in 1956. They won the war. They  were attacked again in 1967 by five countries.  

They won the war. They were attacked again in  1973 in the Yam Kipar war. They won the war.  

The point is, does Israel have a right to exist?  They also had wars in 1982 in Lebanon. They've had  

two of those. They've had uh in I was there. Uh  no, I'm very familiar with the modern history of  

the state. Okay. Pretty familiar, I think. And  I've been a Zionist simply means somebody who   believes that Israel has a right to exist. Now,  the question is, do you believe Israel has a right  

to exist? I guess. I mean, I want Israel to exist.  Well, no, but I want to know what that means. So,   like, do other countries have a right to  exist? Well, they do exist. Do they have  

a right to exist? You keep saying Israel has a  right to exist. And I want to know what other   countries have. They have a legal right because  every international body in the last 100 years  

has said the Jewish people have a right to their  indigenous home. But that's a legal right. Do they  

have a biblical right? I would say that yes, but  you may say they don't. I don't know. I'm actually   sincerely interested in finding out what you  mean by a biblical right. But first to the legal  

right. Does any other country on the planet have  the same right that Israel has to exist? Well,  

you could say does Jordan have a right to exist  when it was Trans Jordan and the Brits came and  

divided up the Middle East and they gave some  land to Jordanians and they gave some land to  

the Saudis and they gave some land uh to various  Middle Eastern countries and it was all carved up  

and the French gave Lebanon its right to exist.  Do they have a right to exist? Do they? Well,  

why not? Okay. So, that's my So, every country,  does the US have a right to exist? I'm asking you.  

Okay. And I'm telling you, I think the US has a  right to exist. Okay. We came here. We came there.  

We're in Israel now talking. But does the US have  a right to exist? Does anyone question whether we  

have a right to exist? I don't. Yeah. But, but I  of course I'm for America, you know. Good for you.  

But I So every current country on the map has the  same right to exist that Israel has. Is that what  

you're saying? I think what we're saying is that  when a country has established itself and it is   following international law, it has been deemed  by numerous bodies that it is indigenous to its  

homeland as Israel is. This is its homeland. It  goes back 3,800 years to the time of Abraham.  

It's not that. Well, hold on. Now I'm getting  the Jewish people just showed up here in 1948   and said we're going to we're going to have some  Hold on. So those are two different tracks and I  

just want to make sure that we separate them so I  understand each one separately. So you're saying   there's the modern legal framework and so you  said a country that abides by international law  

has a right to exist. I would say that that is a  part would it be would the inverse be true that  

a country that does not abide by international law  forfeits its right to exist? not necessarily if it   has the capacity to stay and make its case known,  but there have been Jewish people in this land,  

this very land for 3800 years. Okay. So, but  you're saying as the modern nation state with  

borders and a military and a kessid and just all  the kind of trappings of a modern country, all of  

which I support, that country has every country on  the planet has the same right as Israel to exist  

because it does exist. Is that what you're I'm  just trying to understand the concept here. Well,   I think what we're trying to get to is Christian  Zionism. And you've taken this way off the road  

here. I know that I have. I don't mean to.  Um, Christian Zionism is a separate thing,   but I just keep hearing people say Zionism is the  belief. That's the fundamental argument that's  

going on. Does Israel have a right to live  in their indigenous ancient historical land,  

a land that has been affirmed throughout  international organizations, a land that  

has direct ties to the Jewish people. I just want  to know if this is a universal principle. I guess   that's what I'm getting at because if it's not  then it's meaningless to me because as a Christian  

I believe in universal principles. Something is  right for everyone or it's wrong for everyone. I  

don't we don't believe in special cases. Question.  If the Jews didn't have this land, would the Jews  

have a right to any land? I I don't know. I'm not  attacking the Jews. I'm asking if this applies to  

every people and every nation. Does every nation  have the same right to its own homeland, to its  

own physical land that you say Israel does? I feel  like we're in a rabbit hole here. No, I think it's  

a very straightforward question. Does that right  extend to other countries other than Israel? But   the most important thing that is going on in our  culture right now is whether or not the people  

that are yelling in the streets from the river to  the sea, whether that that's a legitimate point of  

view to say that there should not be a Jewish  homeland, there should not be a Jewish state.  

You'll never hear me say I just want to know. I  know you haven't said it, but that's the argument.   That's one of the arguments going on globally and  the United States, excuse me, has a pretty narrow  

view, I would say, in our media culture, what's  happening around the world. There are plenty of   countries having this debate. Stonehenge is a lot  older than the first temple in Israel, and it was  

built by the same people who live there now.  It's the same people, and they are being pushed   off their island and outnumbered by people from  other places. And so in Great Britain, in Ireland,  

which is also a a country with a nation of people,  a race if you will, that is being displaced,  

replaced. Who are they being replaced by?  Immigrants, okay, from other places. I just wanted   to clarify because I was one of the Well, just  as a as a demographic matter, it's just like you  

can look at the numbers. It's not controversial.  Just look at the numbers. They'll be a minority in   their country and their people have been there  longer than than Jews have been in Israel. And  

so they're having this debate, too. That's all I'm  saying. And lots of places are having this debate.   Sure. So, does that principle apply to everyone or  is it specific just to Israel? I think it applies  

specifically to Israel. It applies to anyone who  can prove that they have some connection to the  

land and connection to the history and connection  to international law. But Israel, I think,   does have bringing up international law. My So,  if again, no, but but let me finish this because  

here's the here's the point. We're talking about  Christian Zionism. The idea that as a Christian, I  

believe in both the Old and the New Testament. Why  wouldn't I? I'm a person of the book. There are   80 million evangelical Christians in the United  States. What makes us who we are is our adherence  

to the scripture. Our belief that the Bible,  all of it, not part of it, but all of it is the   word of the living God. Yeah. So if I believe in  the Old and the New Testament, I do believe that  

there is a very specific call to the Jewish people  that started with Abraham and he called them out  

of what is now modern day Iraq. Said, "Come where  I send you." He came. This is the land. Genesis  

12:3. He says, "I will bless those who bless  you. Curse those who curse you." In Genesis 17,  

he looks out of the world. says look and this is  where I'm giving you the land. I think since that  

time there have been people living in this land  connected to that moment of history. So there is  

a historical connection that is not even broken.  I you've said that and I want to ask you what that  

means a little more specifically if that's okay.  But first let me just say that you could say the   same thing of Britain who've been there in their  land longer. Does anybody try to tell the Brits  

they the Brits they can't live there anymore? No.  What's happening is But they are saying that to   the Jews. Oh, okay. Okay. But I just wonder if  you would extend extend the same sympathy or the  

same principle. You don't You seem like this is  You think I'm trying to trap you? I'm not. I'm   at all trying to trap you. I It'd be as simple as  saying native Britain have I got no problem with  

the native Brits having their land. My point is  I don't know that there is a biblical connection  

for the Brits, but I would say that's take that  off the table and I think there's still a basis  

for the Jews having this little bitty strip of  real estate and it is I'm not even arguing with   you. I'm just trying to at all. I'm just trying  to understand what it is that you're saying cuz  

it's it's not obvious to me and maybe it's an IQ  problem but I'm having trouble understanding this.  

But let me just go back to just clarify one thing.  You've brought up international at least twice,   maybe three times. as a basis for Israel's  legitimacy. If Israel was out of compliance  

with international law, whatever that is, would it  be less legitimate? Depends on if the the law and  

the way it's applied is legitimate. There there  are some applications of so-called international   law that are not legitimate. Look at the ICC  or the IC. I agree. Utterly ridiculous. One  

of the reasons I'm so grateful President Trump and  Secretary Rubio are pushing hard trying to get rid  

of the ICC and the ICJ is because they have become  rogue organizations that are no longer really  

about an equal application of law and justice. I  don't know enough about it to say if that's true  

or not. I I um but I just I'm interested that you  yourself appealed to international law as a basis  

of is Israel's what I'm looking at is the whole  of the last 100 years. The Belffor declaration  

is not exactly international law by the way. It  was a letter I think. It was maybe maybe not law   but it was a declaration. It was a an assumption  and a declaration that was done by Lord Balffor  

in the in Great Britain at that time. This land  was under the British mandate and he said the  

Jews should have the land that was theirs from  3,800 years ago. It was simple as that. Right.  

And I'm not debating that. I'm just It was not not  international law. It was a colonial power saying,  

"Okay, divide up the world under the League of  Nations, under the United Nations." And then  

because of the victories that Israel had against  those who tried to annihilate them and it wasn't   just that they were trying to take a little  piece of their land, they tried to annihilate  

them. Okay? And there is still to this day the  shouts of from the river to the sea. And Tucker,  

that means only one thing. Not the shrinking of  Israel, but the annihilation of Israel. I don't  

think I don't think you can say that you know what  it means actually because you don't know what's in   people's hearts. So why don't we just deal with  the facts? Maybe some people mean it. It's in  

their mouths. I know it's in their minds. But I'm  not Look, you'll never hear me say that. I What   you will hear me say is I'm confused by what the  definitions are. So let's go through this. You've  

appealed to Genesis. Genesis 15 says it's Abram.  It's pre-Abraham. It's Abram receives from God the  

news that his descendants will inherit the land.  And you tell me as the as the theologian if I'm   getting this wrong, but from the Euphrates to the  Nile, I think I think that's right. And that would  

include like basically the entire Middle East.  That would be the Levant. So that would be Israel,  

Jordan, Syria, Lebanon. It would also be big parts  of Saudi Arabia and Iraq. It would be I mean not  

sure it would go that far. I mean it would be  a big piece of land. But here's the It would   be a lot of places that are now countries that but  this particular area that we're talking about now,  

Israel is um is a land that God gave through  Abraham to a people that he chose. It was a  

people, a place, and a purpose. We we can look at  it that way. Christian Zionism, I want to go back  

because that's where we started on I'm not going  to let you off on this because you have said it   three times that God gave this land to this people  and so it is entirely fair for me with respect to  

ask what land are you talking about because  I just read Genesis 15 as I have many times   and that land I think it says from the Nile to the  Euphrates which is once again basically the entire  

Middle East. So God gave that land to his people  the Jews or he didn't. You're saying he did.  

What does that mean? Does Israel have the right  to that land? Because you're appealing to Genesis.  

Yeah. You're saying that's the original  deed? It would be fine if they took it all.  

But I don't think that's what we're talking  about here today. What would be fine? Well,   it's exactly what we're talking about today. But  but here's what I I don't think I think it would  

be fine if the state of Israel took over all. They  don't want to take it over. They're not asking to   take it over. But you're saying that the reason  that Israel is legitimate, has this inherent right  

to exist is becau in part because God gave it to  his people. And I am going to the same Bible that  

you're referring to and noticing that that is a  huge piece of land. So if God gave them that land,  

then they have a right to take it now by your  definition. Unless I'm missing something. I   think you're missing something because they're  not asking to go back to take all of that,  

but they are asking to at least take the  land that they now occupy, they now live in,  

they now own legitimately, and it is a safe haven  for them. Well, may I ask though as because you're  

appealing, you're explaining what Christian  Zionism is and your theological beliefs and   you think you just said it would be fine with you  if the state of Israel took all of all of Syria,  

all of Lebanon. That's that's really not exactly  what I'm trying to say. I'm asking, is that what  

you said? I thought that's what you just said. It  was somewhat of a hyperbolic statement in that,   you know, if that's what you feel like that we're  talking about, but it isn't. We're talking about  

this land that Israel, the state of Israel, now  lives in and wants to have peace in. They're not  

trying to take over Jordan. They're not trying to  take over Syria. They're not trying to take over   Iraq or anywhere else, but they do want to protect  their people. No, they're not trying to take over  

Lebanon. But you're saying that as a religious  man, as a Christian, a Christian Zionist,   you agree with a lot of religious communities  here in Israel, that the justification for this  

country is theological. It's a it's a contract  between God and his people. And I'm telling you   that that contract includes a tract of land that  is much larger than the current nation state.  

may be a bigger Zionist than even the Jews  are that live in I'm trying to understand   the implications of your theology for geopolitics  because you're saying that the present government  

of Israel has a moral right to take over  what are now other people's countries. No,  

I didn't say that. Then what are you saying? I'm  simply saying that the people who live in Israel  

um I think have a right to have security, have  safety. They have a right to be able to live in  

this land that they have a connection to for 30  years. I told myself when I said a prayer that I   would not get annoyed, but as someone who is, you  know, the father of daughters, when I see child  

molesters hiding in Israel and escaping American  justice, I think I have a right to safety in my  

country, too. So, you can understand that. I  think most people feel they have a right to   safety. I do think Israel has a right to safety  and I I hope that for them and I'm sincere,  

but I'm an American and I have a right to safety  in my country, too. You agree? And I think so, but  

I just want to get to this point. If Israel were  to say, God gave us in Genesis 15, all of Lebanon,  

all of Syria, all the way up to Iraq, would that  be legitimate in your view? I don't think in this  

particular day and time they're asking for it.  Would it be legitimate? I'm not sure that it would  

be. Why? Because you just said that God because  I think that there is a a an understanding that  

the people of Israel today. Now, if they end up  getting attacked by all these places and they win  

that war and they take that land, then okay, that  that's a whole another whole another discussion.  

But you and I started women. We started talking  about something simple, Christian Zionism. But  

it turns out it's not because I don't the core of  Christian Zionism, you said, and I'm quoting you,  

is the understanding, the belief, the theological  understanding that Jews have a moral and legal,  

we went through the legal moral deriving from the  biblical. the promises in our Bible which we share  

with the Jewish people, the first part of the Old  Testament that it derives from God's promise to  

the Jews. And so I have two questions. What are  the borders of that? And who are those people in  

2026? And you're not the first person I've asked,  but you're the most reasonable, most gentle,  

most theologically informed person. So I'm really  hoping for an answer. The first question was the   borders. I can't get an answer. Those borders are  so I'm going to give up. But the second question  

is every bit as pressing which is who are the  people? Who are the modern? Yes. Who are who  

are the descendants? So we know and I believe and  I agree with you as a Christian that God promised  

this land from modern day Iraq to modern day Egypt  to this people the Jews to Abram's actually not to  

the to Abram's descendants as it says in Genesis  15. Who are his descendants now? And how do we  

know who they are? I think they're the Jews.  And we know who they are because they've always   been a Jewish people. There has been an unbroken  line of Jewish people. And they've lived in this  

land for 3,800 years. Sometimes not very many  of them because they were chased out all over  

the world. They were hunted down. They were almost  annihilated during the Holocaust. They came back.  

To this day, Tucker, they represent, you know, how  many Jews there are in the whole world. Please.   I understand. But first of all, the greatest  genocide of Jews no one ever mentions was by  

the Romans where they were literally banned from  Jerusalem for 500 years. Yeah, of course. And and  

it's all awful. And I'm opposed to all of that.  I'm opposed to mass killing of anybody. Period.   I'm hear you say that. I mean it. Yeah. And I hope  that I believe that. My question is, and it's not  

a bumper sticker answer, it's a sincere answer.  How do we know? Because what you're saying is that  

certain people have a title to a highly contested  region. They own it in some deep sense. So I think  

it's fair to ask who are they and how do we know?  So the current prime minister's ancestors weren't  

from here within recorded history there. He has no  deed. BB Netanyahu on one side his family's from  

Poland. They're from Eastern Europe. So, how do  we know that he has a connection to the people who  

God promised the land to, Abram's descendants? How  do we know that? Well, if you take the genealogies   that come not only from the Old, but the New  Testament, you see that there is a historical  

connection through the entirety of the Old and the  New Testament that details the Jewish connection  

to this land. Does that include family? How do  we know that if his family scattered? But how  

do we know it's the same people? No. Wh why is  that crazy? If if if you say to me if they speak  

the same language, if they worship the same God,  if they follow the same Bible, if they follow the   same cultures and traditions and they always  pray next year in Jerusalem and they pray for  

the peace of Jerusalem and they pray facing toward  Jerusalem, does that not give you a little bit of   a clue as to who they are? Let's go through those  things because I would like to have a rational.  

This is the conversation I've wanted. Bless you.  Thank you for doing this. Um let's just go through  

those things. Okay. So, one of the things I admire  most about Israel is they resurrected a dead   language in 1948. Good for them. Well, they really  didn't resurrect it. It It was existent. Okay.  

I'm not That's not That's a compliment. I'm not  slightly No, no, no. But it is the first time in   all of human history that a language has survived  through this length of time. It's it's it's I  

would call it You might not, but I would call it a  miracle. One of many, okay, that you can attribute  

to this. I think it's wonderful as someone  who loves language. Netanyahu's parents did   not speak Hebrew. Okay? They didn't live in this  region. Netanyahu, the founders of this country  

were mostly secular. Some of them were avowed  atheists. They were not praying for the peace   of Jerusalem. They weren't praying at all because  they didn't believe in God. There's no genealogy  

linking their families to the people of this land  3,000 years ago. They're none. So, how do we know  

since they didn't share a language? They didn't  share a religion. They had no religion whatsoever.  

How do we know that they had a right to come here  from Eastern Europe? And but they were scattered  

land. They were scattered to Eastern Europe. They  were scattered all over the world. There were many   in Ethiopia. They were in Russia. They were in  Poland. They were throughout Asia. Jews were all  

over the place. But they were still Jews. They  were still Jews. Okay. So, let me get to the nub  

of the question since again a lot is at stake. A  lot of money is at stake. Land is very valuable.  

Uh, Israel has a lot of resources. By the way,  if you're accused of a crime, you can hide here.   That's pretty good passport to have. It's a good  thing, right? So, who's entitled to it? I don't  

understand. And you're very discouraged in the  United States from asking this question for some   reason. It's a totally rational discourage. No,  you're not discouraging. Others do. You're like  

the only person I have this conversation with.  Everyone will be like, "Shut up, Nazi." It it's   a foundational question. Are you speaking of an  ethnic group or a religious group? Well, I think  

you're looking at for many people it is religious.  There are people who may not have a deep religious  

connection to Judaism, but they're still Jews.  Okay? So, it's it's an ethnic category. It is   ethnic, but it is also religious. It is rooted  in religion. You can't take it out of it. Now,  

that means then how can an atheist Well, I will  tell you this. There are some people who say, "I'm   Christian." They never go to church. They never  pray. They never read their Bible. They don't  

tithe. But they're not entitled to citizenship  on the basis of that. They still call themselves  

Christian even though they identify. Okay. Here's  the difference. You're saying that people who have  

this identification have a deed to a huge chunk  of land on the Mediterranean. Okay. So there's,  

you know, it's a it's a right. You keep telling  me it's a right. And so it's totally fair to say   if you come to my house and say, "I've got the  title to your house." I get to ask, "May I see  

it? Where'd you get it?" And that's exactly what  happened here. People from Europe, Eastern Europe,  

came here. In a lot of cases, atheists and kicked  out a lot of people who lived here. Land. Well,  

they did not just throw people out. They bought a  lot of land. There's no question about that. Buy   a lot of land, but they also in 1948 kicked out a  lot of people. And the war, it was a war. I agree.  

Yeah, I'm not look I'm not want to reitigate  the history. I'm just saying it's a fact. Okay,   including a lot of Christians. A lot of Christians  uh wound up fleeing and they lost their homes and  

they've never been allowed back. And all  of this was justified on the basis of this   identity that forms that is the ticket to the  right that you keep referring to. So my question  

Is Israel's Christian Population Declining?

is very simple. I'm going to wait patiently for  an answer. Does this right derive from religious   affiliation or from genetics? And I would say it's  both. But I would also say that when you said that  

Christians were kicked out, Tucker, Christianity  is growing in Israel. Okay. But and and there is  

a big lie that goes out there. But but no,  let me finish this because I I keep hearing   that Christians are really not treated well in  Israel. That's just simply that's a lie. Well,  

there are lots there are lots of different There  were 34,000 Christians in Israel in 1948. There   are 184,000 Christians here today. And by  Israel, what are you counting? You talking  

about the land? What what what territory are you  counting? You're counting Israel proper or are  

you counting the West Bank as well and Gaza?  I mean, what what do you when you say Israel,   those numbers apply to what land mass? It would  be in Israel proper. Okay, there 184,000. Now,  

I'll tell you where Christians are not doing very  well. They're not doing very well in the Muslim  

control countries. There's almost no Christians  in Qatar, for example, except those who live in  

the Christian ghetto who are the service workers.  I'm sorry. Look, I don't want to argue with you.   There there are many more Christians in Qatar  than there are in Israel. That's not true. What  

it actually is true and I refer you to Wikipedia,  Mr. Ambassador. Wikipedia the I refer you to the  

government of Qar, the government of Israel. These  are knowable facts. Like I'm and I'm in Jordan by   the numbers are down. In Syria, the numbers are  down. In Lebanon, the numbers are down. argue  

that about twice as many Christians, but they live  in the enclave. They are not native Qataris. Okay,  

we're we're mixing so many different categories  here. I'm just saying I get things wrong all the   time. You've just gotten something wrong. And  I think it's important to acknowledge it. There  

are many more Christians in Qar than there are  in Israel. Fact. How many? Now, you caught me.   I don't know. I could look at my phone, but I was  just there. And there are many more like whatever.  

But I just want to get to the point that forms  the basis of this whole conversation which is  

Who Has a Right to the Land of Israel?

who has a right to the land. Yeah. And you said  it's a mixture of religion and ethnicity because  

as I noted and you agree many of the founders  maybe the majority of the founders of modern   Israel did not believe in God at all. So they  were not religious Jews. They weren't religious  

at all. They were atheists. They said they were  atheists. I believe them. So that suggests it's  

ethnic. But it's also true, as you well know,  because there was a famous court case about this,  

that ethnic Jews who convert to Christianity do  not have the right of return that was settled  

by the Israeli Supreme Court. I'm very confused.  So that would suggest it's not ethnicity because  

you invalidate your Jewishness by converting to  Christianity. There are a number of Messianic Jews  

who live in Israel, who are here. I'm aware of  significant number, but you're not contesting what  

I'm saying because it's a very famous court case.  The right of return has to do with your mother,  

your grandmother. It has to do with family ties  ethnic. There is a lot of sure ethnicity is a big  

part of the right of return to make aliyah to come  to Israel to live here. Then if I if both of your  

parents are Jewish and you have an ethnic right to  the land, you are one of Abram's descendants, but  

you convert to Christianity. How is it you don't  have the right to return? I'm totally confused.   But I know a number of people who have returned  as Christians, but have Jewish history. Are you  

saying that Jews who convert to Christianity have  a right, a legal right to return? Cuz I I know  

that they do. Whether when you say do they have a  right to return do they prove it's a it's a legal  

category as in government by their family history  their grandmother their mother and there are many  

aspects of that I've read it I think I know that  people who are Christian and they came here made  

aliyah they had Jewish blood Jewish history they  were Christian messianic but they came here and  

they were welcomed here and they were given full  legal rights and a passport. So, so clearly that's  

not it's not true that you invalidate your right  of return by converting to Christianity. That's   just false. I'm not aware of that. I I know that  there are a number of Christians here. I go to  

church with Christians every week here. Of course.  But do you have a right to come and say I am an  

ethnic Jew even though I practice Christianity.  Therefore, I have every bit as much right to move  

into a settlement in the West Bank or into  East Jerusalem or anywhere I want, Galilee,  

anywhere because I'm returning to the land of  my forefathers of a legal right in the state of  

Israel even though I've converted to Christianity.  You're saying that's true. I'm saying I know   people have done it. Now, can can I tell you what  the law specifically is? I'm not sure because  

it's really a Christian. I'm not I don't have  any Jewish roots, so therefore I cannot quote  

you the law. If you want me to do that, I'll look  at Well, it really matters because you're saying,   in fact, people in the United States are being  called anti-semites. A lot of them, including me,  

because they somehow don't believe that Israel has  a right to this land. Do you think Israel has a  

right to this land? No. You haven't defined what  the land is, and you haven't defined who Israel   is. So, I really don't know. No, it is the land  they're living in now. The borders that they have,  

the borders are moving. The borders have moved  in the last year. What do you mean the borders   have moved in the last Well, they they are  the 1967 borders. I'm including, you know,  

the the West East Jerusalem and Jude and Samaria.  What are the borders of Judea and Samaria? Well,  

you basically take the Jordan River and it's  west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean  

Sea to the Lebanon border. And uh Israel did have  control of the Sinai. They gave that to Egypt.  

They had control of it. They gave it away in  1979 in the peace agreement. Um, but okay. So,  

we whatever you call it, the land that was  taken from Jordan in 1967, you call it Judea  

and Samaria. There's a significance to that that  I don't fully understand. I'm against it. I know  

what it it's 80% of the Bible happened in Judea  and Samaria. We've also established that the Bible  

gives Jews the right to occupy the land from the  Nile to the Euphrates. So I'm very confused by  

why we've shrunk the land and why we're dis Israel  has shrunk the land. They have made that decision.  

That's why they gave away now given away a lot of  things. Abram's descendants are the ones who have  

the right to have this land. Correct? Yes. Okay.  Why don't we do genetic testing on everybody in  

the land and find out who Abram's descendants  are? It's really simple. We've cracked the   human genome. We can do that. Why don't we do  that? Would you be against doing that? I I have  

no idea what that would prove. I mean, maybe it  would be What do you mean what it would? It would   prove who Abram's descendants are and who has a  a right to live here and who doesn't according to  

the theology that you yourself just explained.  And so I'm very confused as to why we don't do  

that. If you believe the theology that you've  just explained to me, would we do that all over   the world and everybody? This is the only country  in the world that you've said has this covenant  

with God that this people have a moral and legal  right to the land. What about people who convert  

to Judaism? Would they have a right? Well, you've  just you've just said to Judaism. So, you just  

told me they can make aliyah. They may not have  you've just told me that it doesn't matter. You  

told me moments ago, trying to keep track, okay,  that it doesn't matter whether or not you believe  

in God or whether or not you practice Torah  Judaism or rabbitic Judaism, which is something  

else that I I don't even know if we should I don't  even know what that means. But it doesn't matter  

whether you're quote a religious Jew or not. What  matters is that you are part of the Jewish people  

to whom God gave this land that extends from the  Nile to the Euphrates. And so if you believe that,  

wouldn't you want to know with a burning passion  who those people are? And because of science,  

we can now know who those people are. So why  aren't we finding out? I guess you could propose  

a DNA test for everybody who comes here, everybody  who lives here. But the point I'm comfortable with   secular nation states where it's none of this is  done on the basis of blood. I'm uncomfortable with  

that. I'll just say that. But there are people who  may not have bloodlines but who have converted to   Judaism. Are they going to be able to live here?  Are you going to kick them out? By your standards,  

they can't live here because you just said that  they have a right to live here because God gave  

them the land because they're the descendants of  Abram. They're the descendants of Abraham. But   if they're the spiritual descendants of Abraham  and they've now decided that they're converting  

to Judaism, then do they have a right to live in  Israel? I well there's a whole legal literature  

in Israel on that question and my understanding  is that certain types of modern Judaism qualify  

a person and other types don't. Is that your  understanding? I don't believe that people  

converted and I could have this wrong but I  know people who faced this personally know   people. I don't believe people who've converted  in a reform synagogue have the right of return.  

I I don't think that is because I know people  who've married into Jewish families and they   find out they don't have the right of return. So  that is perplexing to me. Yeah. I know, you know,  

my experience is a little different than yours. I  know people who have definite Jewish connections,  

uh, family relations, but now they're Christian.  Some are not necessarily practicing Jews. They're  

not uh they're more secular Jews as you've  discussed, but they come back here. Okay.   I'm not against that. I'm just I'm just wondering  since you have since you began this conversation  

by asking me did I think they had a right to come  here. Yeah. My question was on what basis do they  

have the right? And you said because God granted  it to them. Yeah. And also said because that there   should be a land where Jews could live in peace  and safety. I suppose and I asked you what a Jew  

was and you couldn't answer it. You said it it  partly is religious but doesn't have to be. It's   partly genetic, but it doesn't have to be. And so  that you can see why I'm I think I was very clear  

that being Jewish is an identification either  through blood or through faith that you're Jewish.  

It may be that you're a blood Jew, but you don't  necessarily practice Judaism. Just like there  

are people who say they're Christian, but they  don't do a thing to demonstrate what Christian   There are a lot of bad Christians, including me  some of the time. a lot of the time, but I don't  

have a right to real estate on the basis of my  claim of Christian. You don't have a right to   real estate if you're talking about a specific  parcel. But if you're talking about a land,  

I think what we're talking about, that's all I'm  all I'm saying. And there was a designation to the  

family of nations of the world that there would be  a Jewish homeland. Let's let's get to that point  

because I think you've taken us on several trails  here and I'm not sure we can follow them all. But  

is there a reason that the Jewish people that  represent and I want to get back to this because   you didn't let me finish while ago. They represent  0.2% of the world's population in the entirety of  

the world there about 16 million Jews total and 8  million of them live here. The rest live mostly in  

New York or South Florida and a few other places.  Okay. So, this is a small population of people.  

They have connection to this land historically,  biblically. Do they? Yes, they do. If if BB's  

family, we know they lived in Eastern Europe.  There's no evidence they ever lived here. He's   not religious. What? But do you have his family  tree? No, we don't. Do you? He doesn't. So,  

no one does. That's the point. So, how do we know  that he has any connection to the land at all?   And if there has been a practice of Judaism and a  connection to the language, the Bible, the land,  

his His ancestors didn't he doesn't practice  Judaism in any rigorous way. His ancestors  

didn't live here. They didn't speak the language  and there's no evidence they ever lived here. So,   in what basis does he have a right to very much  speaks the language? He has fought for the land.  

His family has fought for the land. dodging a  very obvious question which is where does this   right come from and the reason it's meaningful is  because there are a lot of people in the territory  

that Israel controls today particularly in the  West Bank who through genetic testing we can  

know their families have been here for thousands  of years we don't know whether they practiced   Judaism whether they were Samaritans pre-Islam  we don't know that a lot of them we know have  

been Christians for 2,000 years They have less of  a right to the land than someone whose ancestors,  

the only thing we know about them is they lived  in Latvia or Poland. They're Eastern European.  

How does that work? They're Jewish. By what  definition? They're Jewish by their But how do  

we know they have any connection? They're Jewish  by their faith. They're Jewish by the connection   to the language. Jewish by the connection to  the Torah. But but but how do we know that BB  

specifically BB's ancestors ever lived here?  How do we know that? I I'm I'm not sure if I  

understand your question. How do we know if the  prime minister of Israel's ancestors ever lived?  

Maybe I could ask you, how do we know they didn't?  I mean, well, it's on the basis of the claim that  

they did that all kinds of things happen. People  are displaced. There's a money flow. I mean,  

there's it's a big question. A lot hangs on  this. It's not some theoretical thing like,   oh, you know, did my grandparents do  this or do that? It's like, no, no,  

we have a right to be here because my ancestors  were here. Okay, how do we know they were here?

I I I'm totally unable to process what you're  trying to get at. It goes back, do Jewish people  

have any land on this planet that should be  theirs? I feel that way about all peoples. I  

feel that way about Jewish peoples. I feel that  way about. Okay. Then then you don't mind him   having this. Is there any Is there any country Let  me ask you this bluntly. Is there any country that  

European peoples have a right to exclusively?  I think they have attained their land through  

conquest. I mean, let's ask ourselves. Have the  Britons attain their land through conquest? No,   they've always been there. The Romans,  the Greeks all speak. No, no, let's Well,  

you could certainly say that here. The Romans  the Romans controlled this as you know and they   expelled they don't Jerusalem. Amen. I want them  to control it. I'm anti-Roman. Okay, we're on the  

same page. Okay. But my question is very simple.  Is there any European peoples that possesses the  

same right to their land that the Jews, including  people whose ancestors lived in Eastern Europe,  

possess here? The Britain, we know, the British  people, the Scandinavian people, the Irish people,  

their ancestors have been there for thousands of  years. That's provable through genetic testing.  

Do they have a right to their land exclusively?  Is anyone saying they don't? Yes, of course. Yes.  

No one will say they will. And I'm asking you, do  they have that right? And I'm not sure what what  

that question involves because no one is trying to  force them out of their land of their homes. But  

here, hold on. You want me to Why won't you answer  that question? Does any Because I just did. Oh,   so the eur So the Irish people have the same  right to their land that the Jews have the  

biblical connection. Okay. But I'm a I'm a Bible  believer. Okay. So that is but it's also it's also  

a principle and that is and you've said it 15  times. Sometimes people have land because they  

they were able to attain it through war. They  were able to obtain it when it was challenged. I   understand that there's all kinds of conflict. But  we can't say that about the Irish world borders  

change all the time. Not actually the borders  of the island of England have not changed nor  

but the Ireland those are just two examples. So  you've got the indigenous people there. Do they   have a moral right to that as their homeland and  I think they would probably say yes we do because  

we have ancient history I've never thought about  whether now that I'm raising the question and you  

spent a lot of time thinking about the right of  the Jewish people to their homeland. Do the Irish   have the same right to a homeland? As long as  they can defend it and as long as they, you know,  

as long as they can defend it. But Tucker,  here's the point. I'm telling you. Wait, hold on,   hold on, hold on. Now you just flipped. You're the  minister here. Yeah. And I'm telling you, as long  

as they can defend it, and if they can't defend,  you're allowing me to tell you that I think that   what is very, very special here is that there is  a biblical as well as an ethnic and a historical.  

So you can take any one, but if you add them  all together, biblical, historical, and ethnic,  

you have a very strong case that the Jewish people  are living in a land that is indigenous to them.  

That has been their historic homeland for 3,800  years. You can repeat it as and you can also look   in the archaeology. The stones cry out. Okay.  Have you been to the city of David for examp  

so you know then that it's an amazing place. It  may be the greatest archaeological discovery in  

all of history because it's it's stunning and they  still continue to find things that date the Jewish  

people to this land archaeologically for 3,800  years. We can we can date the Britain the British  

people to their land much longer much thousands of  years longer. Stonehenge is 3,000 years older than  

any building built by the descendants of Abram  in this country. And so I just it's fine. I'm  

not trying to invalidate anyone's right. I'm just  wanting you to affirm that right, but it makes   you uncomfortable and you won't. And I don't know  why. Because I've never honestly sat down and and  

asked myself, are the lines around the It's an So  we know what the lines are. I'm but I'm I'm saying  

but are those lines are those rooted in something  other than the historical connection? Well,  

great. Then they should have it. But that's they  have a right to have it. But then you said if they   can defend it and if they can't defend it,  they lose the right. But I didn't say it was  

exclusive one or the other. I think you're really  going off the chart. I just want to know if these   principles apply universally or if they only apply  to the people of Israel. And my answer appears to  

be just the people of Israel. They're the only  ones with these rights. And I just reject that.   I didn't say that. But I'm saying we are talking  about Israel. We're in Israel. We're talking  

about Christian Zionism because you've made some  disparaging statements about Christian Zionist.   You've apologized for him for which I appreciate.  And now we're trying to define Christian and  

Zionist. And it seems like we've gone way way  off of trying to get as you suggested as a former  

debater at the outset. I'm trying to get to terms  and a common understanding of what the words mean   and the term and I'm no closer to that than I than  I was when I began. You're not closer to the term  

a Christian. What that means? I think it's someone  who follows Jesus. And that's my next question.   There are a lot of Christians in the West Bank and  um there there were a fair amount of Christians  

The Killing of Christians in Gaza

in Gaza and some of them have been killed. There  were 5,000 in Gaza. Yeah. Yeah. and church. Two  

different churches were hit by the IDF. Christian  Hospital was hit seven times by the IDF. And I  

don't understand they were not hit seven times.  They were there were different I know. And one  

of the times it was a rocket that was shot  by Hamas and all the news agencies reported  

that the IDF shot the rocket. They said the IDF  ever hit the hospital or the churches. They did  

uh accidentally because and they apologized for  it and it was very unfortunate. But they also you  

got to remember there were times Hamas often  hid caches of arms under hospitals. Were you  

bothered by the fact that the IDF hit Christians?  I'm bothered that anyone got killed in Gaza. But  

you know why I'm bothered? You're a Christian  minister. You can't say that the Christians are   Islamic extremists. No, but I can say that the  reason side with the Christians over the secular  

government of Israel, but I I would look at  it even more broadly. I would ask you this.  

Why was there so much suffering and continues  to be suffering in Gaza? It's because Hamas,  

which could have built a Singapore, built a Haiti,  they have a land mass the size of Las Vegas. They  

built tunnels underneath that are larger than the  London Underground, over 500 miles of tunnels.  

They didn't build it to move people from one  hospital to the other, one marketplace to the   other, but to hide terrorist, to hide weaponry.  And on October the 7th, they went over there and  

they massacred,200 civilians. Massacred,  mutilated, humiliated them. You're never  

going to get me to defend Hamas. Sorry. Please  don't. I'm not going to. But I'm telling you,   I'm appalled by it. How many civilians have been  killed by the IDF in Gaza? We don't know. You know  

why? We don't know. What's your guess? Well, the  only numbers we have come from this dubious entity   called the Gaza Health Ministry. You know who that  is? Well, why does Israel have a have a some kind  

of count on it? We also know that a lot of the  people who were killed were in fact warriors.   Sadly, how many kids were killed? We don't know.  What's your guess? I don't know. I'm I'm sure  

it was thousands. And as thousands of kids were  killed, some of the kids who were killed had been  

recruited to be in the military. Kids as young  as 14 years old kids. Do do you hear yourself? I  

wonder. I just said that there were kids as young  as 14 that were recruited to be Hamas soldiers who  

were given arms. How do you feel about the  kids being killed? I think it's horrible.   You know what I also think is horrible? I think  it's horrible that,200 people were slaughtered  

by people across the border. 252 people were  taken hostage. 48 of the,200 were Americans.  

And then when Hamas could have ended this on  October the 8th and given all the hostages up,  

they didn't. Leaving no choice. You're never going  to get me to defend Hamas. I'm not pro Hamas. I'm  

totally opposed to slaughtering innocents whether  Hamas does it or whether the government of Israel   does it in much larger numbers. And the reason  I'm opposed to it is because I'm a Christian  

and I believe that all souls are created by God. I  did don't do not disagree with that wholeheartedly  

but but I said how many children have been war  is a horrible thing period and we don't know  

we know that a lot of the numbers were reported  by you said you think thousands of children have  

been killed yeah and a lot of times you know why  they got killed because Hamas would gather up the   children and put them in the targets. Do you know  what Israel does? They send page messages and they  

send texts to every cell phone in Gaza and they  say, "We're going to hit this particular target."  

They drop leaflets and they announce where they're  going to hit. Nobody does that. The US doesn't do  

that. Israel does that in order to prevent, let  me finish this, they do this in order to prevent  

civilian casualties. What Hamas does, they say,  "Oh, this is the target." And by gunpoint they  

push people into those various places. And then  when people get killed, they say, "Look, Israel  

just slaughtered these people." Even though it was  Hamas who moved them into harm's way, knowing that  

it was going to put them in a place of danger and  death and destruction. And they do that because  

they don't care. You say you care about life.  I care about life. It's interesting. They don't  

care about life. I'm not saying that Hamas does.  You're never going to get me to defend Hamas. I'm   good. I'm anti-hasm. You said that three times and  I I believe it. Your dig at the United States is  

very revealing. Why is it revealing? Because your  priorities are very clear. No. No. Yes, they are.  

Yes, they are. And as an American, permit me a  moment, okay, of outrage. Because I said many  

civilians have been killed. And you said right in  the middle of your elaborate defense of the IDF's  

killing of civilians, including children, you said  they do a better job than the United States does.  

That's my country. and my government I consider  what flag am I wearing here? Well, I I'm asking  

why is it what flag am I wearing? Well, that's of  course my flag as well. And it's my flag. It's who  

I serve. So why the dig at the United States in  the middle? It's not a dig at them. No, no, no,   no. You you've totally misrepresented. What did  you mean by that? I did not take a dig at the US.  

What I'm saying is So the IDF is more humane than  the US military. I'm just saying that Israel takes  

steps that we don't take and no other country  that I'm aware of takes to try to prevent because  

no matter what Israel does, they're going to get  accused of genocide. That may be right. And I'm  

um I'm just telling you that they But then let me  ask you on that question. You know, I that's such   a politically loaded but I resent the idea that  you think that I'm not loyal to the US. Look,  

I'm not say you're not loyal. I'm merely noting  what you just said, which was that the IDF takes  

greater pains than the US, our military does to  spare civilian lives. And I guess my question is,  

when was the last time the US military killed this  many civilians? Do you know? Well, it could have  

been Nagasaki, Hiroshima, could have been uh Iraq,  Afghanistan. We don't know the full number. And  

I think most Christians would say all of those  things were atrocities because innocents were   killed in large numbers. And we we don't believe  in that. And so that's not really a defense,  

is it? It's a horrible thing, Tucker. And there  are people who end up unfortunately being killed  

that shouldn't have been. I I would tell you that  I wish that none of those people in Gaza had been  

killed after October the 8th. Well, I say not  none of them. I'm glad Muhammad Sinoir was killed.  

I'm glad that some of those warriors, the people  who masterminded and carried out the atrocities,  

old Hamas operatives, how do you feel about  their deaths? If they participated in that,   then God help them. I'm telling you, I don't know  that they were 14 years. No, but I'm telling you  

that when someone commits the acts of atrocity  and then they hold hostages, if these were your  

children being held hostage in Gaza, what would  you do to get them out? I wouldn't want to kill   14-year-olds. I'll tell you that. Let me ask you  something. Would you do whatever it took to get  

your kids back if they were being tortured, raped,  starved? I would not kill children, period. Well,   I'm just telling you, and I would never make  excuses for killing children either. And I'm  

not talking about targeting children. I'm talking  about You told me that 14-year-olds deserve to die   because they're working for him. My question is,  can you hear yourself? I do hear myself. So, do  

you think a 14-year-old child has agency? Do you  think that he deserves to die because he's being   used by adults? Isn't his death a crushing tragic?  He's holding a gun and he's pointing it at someone  

who's trying to save a hostage and the only way  to save that hostage. I'm telling you, war is a  

horrible thing. It's a horrible thing. And a lot  of innocent I think I'm the one who thinks war is   a horrible thing. No, no, no, no. I think what you  don't I'm trying to explain how horrible it is.  

And you're saying that the 14-year-old deserved  to die. We don't execute 14-y old. Putting words   in my mouth that I didn't I don't know what you're  saying. You never said deserve to die. Okay. I say  

there are people who die. That is unfortunate.  Okay. But I'm saying that you are not giving  

Israel credit for having done everything they  possibly could to a level that quite frankly in  

urban warfare there has never been a war criticize  Israel but it's a foreign country and I would much  

rather criticize a foreign country than my own.  Feel free to do that. They can you pivoted against  

our country's done a better job than our military  has. I I simply gave you the illustration and I  

helped you understand that Israel goes to links  that no other country, including ours, goes to in  

the middle of an urban war. And yet, Israel ended  up with fewer civilian deaths in an urban war than  

any urban war of record. You said you didn't  know how many civilian deaths there were. So,   how can you say that? If you took Gaza's numbers,  Hamas's numbers, you don't know what the numbers  

are. You just told me that. But I'm saying it's  a lower number. But if you took the numbers that   they reported, which is like 50,000, 24 or 25,000  of those were actual warriors. How many civilians  

if you if you range from 120 to 78? Those ones I  just read. I don't know if that's real. I don't  

know either. I'm asking you. Yeah. And I'm telling  you those numbers I've not heard have not read.  

The numbers that I think are more reportable are  somewhere in the 60,000 range. Where are those   from? from the Gaza Health Ministry. You said  those are valid numbers. I think they are. I  

don't think that they're accurate, but I'm saying  let's just You're saying they're inaccurate, but   they prove that Israel is done doing a great job.  Let's assume that the most uh widespread numbers,  

the largest numbers that have been reported out  of Gaza by Hamas. Yes. Let's assume they're true.  

That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying they  are true, but assume they're true. Let's just   take them at their word. Then you still have  a lower number of civilians killed than in any  

urban warfare environment in modern history.  Fact. Is that a fact? Yes. What are you comparing  

it to? To any urban war. Name one. Iraq. Where?  Afghanistan. We're in Iraq. Where in Afghanistan?  

There aren't many urban areas in Afghanistan. I  don't think there was any fighting in urban areas   in Afghanistan. Cobble. I don't know. Was there  was there were there pitch battles in Kbble over  

long periods of time? I I don't 20 years in Kbble.  I don't think throughout all of Afghanistan. But  

what so what were those rates you're talking  about? What are the rates there? You just the  

number of people who were killed. Uhhuh. Into  the tens of thousands. I I'm I'm asking you to  

I don't know the answer. I'd have never heard  of any of this. You brought it up. You said the   IDF has killed a lower proportion of civilians in  urban warfare than in any urban conflict in modern  

history. I'd never heard that before. I don't  know what your what are the controls for that.   And you said, well, the US military killed more  civilians. Would you agree that the real tragedy  

was that Hamas continued to force this war? Hold  on. You just once again said that the IDF is  

more humane than the United States military. You  just said that. You said in Iraq and Afghanistan,  

the US military killed more civilians than the IDF  did in Gaza. You just told me. I never heard that  

before. And my question is, how do you know that?  What are those numbers? And I'm trying to explain   to you that there were extraordinary efforts to  keep the numbers to you. I think they were tens  

of thousands. I'll get them for you. Well, you  brought it up. That's the only reason I'm pushing   you. But you I'm wearing a flag. I've worked for a  country and you pretended or alleged that somehow  

I'm not loyal to this and that I'm criticizing  my own country. A better job than the US military  

in Iraq and Afghanistan. And I said, "What are  the numbers?" and you said, "I don't know." So,  

on what basis are you making the claim that the  IDF in Gaza spared more civilians than the US  

Army and Marine Corps did in Afghanistan and  Iraq? Why are you saying that? Like, on what  

basis are you saying that? from the conversations  that I've had with the people who fought there and   I don't have the exact numbers for you. But what  I'm trying to help you to understand, and I don't  

think you're willing to go there, is that there  was no desire to kill people indiscriminately in  

Gaza. I don't think there was any desire  to kill people indiscriminately in Iraq,   Afghanistan. Let me just say I think on and I know  a bunch of people who serve in the IDF and I don't  

Benjamin Netanyahu's Calls for Genocide

believe your average IDF soldier wants to kill  innocents. I just want to be really clear about   that. I don't think most soldiers want to do that.  I think a lot of them in our country, in Israel,  

wind up doing that cuz that's what war is about  and it really hurts them. And I know people who've   done it personally, I know them really well and  it like wrecks their lives. So, but I don't think  

your average soldier wants that in this country or  any other. The leadership is a different question   and I want to refer you very specifically to  a number of speeches the prime minister, your  

friend Benjamin Netanyahu gave in the aftermath  of October 7th, including one in November of that  

year when he referred to Amalcch. Now Amalecch  is a reference, a biblical reference. Of course,  

you'll be very familiar with that. The Amalachites  were a tribe described throughout the Bible,  

particularly in 1 Samuel, that obstructed the Jews  as they fled Egypt. And God tells Samuel to give  

the instructions to Saul to kill the Amalachites.  And he says, and I'm sure you remember this. This  

is in 1st Samuel 15. Of course, I'm sure I know  you know it. He says, "Kill the men, kill the  

women, kill the children, kill the infants, kill  the donkeys, kill the camels, kill everything."  

And Saul spares the king and he spares the  animals. And for that he l he is punished by God.  

That is genocide. God is calling for genocide of  the Amalachites of Amalcch. And the prime minister  

of Israel at least once, I believe on other  occasions described the Palestinians in Gaza as  

Amalcch. That's calling for genocide. And you know  that. I totally disagree. Tell me then what it  

means. Because to say that Israel was attempting  to commit genocide, first of all, that's simply  

not true. I'm not saying I'm saying what is the  prime minister talking about. Why would he refer   to the Palestinians as Amalcch? What is You would  have to ask him. I don't know. I know what I know  

what Amalecch is. I do understand First Samuel 16.  I get all that. 1st Samuel 15. But I do understand  

very and it's widely known. So if you say our  enemy is Amalecch and we are proceeding on the  

basis of God's commands to us, you are calling  for genocide. Tell me how I'm missing something.  

Because if Israel wanted to commit genocide, they  could have done it in two and a half hours. We can   debate what's happened in Gaza. I'm asking you why  the leader of this country ask him. Well, what do  

you think? I don't know. Does that bother you at  all, people? I I I don't know what he meant. I  

don't know if it was an illustrative metaphor.  I think what he was saying was that we're not  

going to let anything keep us from getting our  hostages back. Their sons and their daughters   who are being brutalized, raped, tortured,  starved, beaten. Come on, Mr. Ambassador. No,  

I there are many examples of justice in the Bible,  but there are accused of genocide regularly. I'm  

not accusing Israel of anything. I'm saying  that the prime minister of Israel described  

the Palestinians intended to do genocide. I'm  asking why of all the references in the Bible and  

there are many to justice and there are many to  reconciliation that is a reference to genocide as  

you know killing every man woman child and infant  I'm quoting and their animals wiping them from  

the earth and when they don't do that they're  punished when you say that at the outset of a  

war and then you wind up with massive civilian  casualties maybe not as big as they were in Iraq  

Then I have to ask you what what is that? And  is that kind of thinking consistent with Western  

values and with Christianity? Do we as Christians  believe it's okay to kill people's children? No,  

we don't. And neither do the Israelis because  they didn't go after their children. If they   wanted to kill all their children, Tucker, they've  got the military capacity. They could have done it  

in less than a day. I've heard you say that.  I mean, I guess why didn't they? Why didn't  

they? I think there are a lot of decent people in  Israel who don't want that. But I'm talking Do you   think that the prime minister wanted to wipe out  every single person in Gaza? Do you asking you  

what you think is the US representative of our  government? I I don't think that that's what he  

wanted to do because why are you referring? You  never had to ask him that. Why? Because I never  

saw any evidence any evidence that Israel tried  to wipe out every single person. I just gave  

you examples that they tried to save civilian  lives. Not. By the way, I'm not, as I've said,  

and I mean this, I I I think most soldiers in  most armies, including the Israel Defense Force,  

don't want to kill civilians. I just don't believe  that. I think there are some lunatics. Can I ask   you something? Yes. You platformed a guy. You had  him on your show. Tony Aguilar. Don't platform  

Huckabee Accuses Tony Aguilar of Lying

anyone. I You interviewed Not a liberal, so I  don't platform people. Okay. You you interviewed  

Tony Aguilar who claimed that IDF soldiers killed  a little boy in his presence. Uhhuh. That didn't  

happen. Okay. It did not happen. Let me give you  I don't know if you know whether it happened or  

not. Well, I can tell you why I know it didn't  happen. Because we found that little boy less   than a week later. All right. I was involved,  heavily involved in helping to extricate  

him from Gaza. Four different countries were  involved in getting he and his mother to safety,  

get them out of there. Tony Aguilar is a liar.  Okay. Tony Aguilar claimed that he saw an IDF  

soldier shoot the little boy. He was fired from  the GHF for cause and he begged for his job back  

and they wouldn't give it back because they didn't  want him. And he told him that if they didn't give   his job back that he would burn him down. Okay?  So he goes out. Now let me finish this because  

it's important for you to understand. Right? So  this guy then goes out and makes up this story  

that he witnessed IDF soldiers shooting a little  boy. I don't know that he made it up. He seemed to   believe it to me. It's possible he's wrong. I've  been wrong many times. Well, this is a little bit  

more than just missing a fact. He claimed to be an  eyewitness to the murder of a little boy. a little  

boy that a week later we found. And you're sure  it's the same little boy? We're absolutely sure.   How do you know that? Because we have pictures of  him. We had descriptions of him. We know his name.  

We know his mother. Okay. He was extricated out  of Gaza. It was a very delicate situation to get  

him out because if Hamas had found out that he was  still alive, they would have killed him in order   to validate Aguiler's story. How do you know that?  So, he gets out. How do you know Hamas would have  

killed him? Why wouldn't they? Wouldn't they have  wanted to kill him? because that way they could   have said that this story was true. The people are  just telling you that what you're saying is true  

and I have no basis of knowing. I'm really glad  cuz I don't want little kids to get killed even   14-year-olds. Okay. You shouldn't want anyone to  get. But let me ask you, is it true he also made  

the claim and he had audio of it um and video too  that uh US contractors were using live ammunition  

to disperse crowds and he had video of that. Do  you know if is did he make up that video? There  

were times here's what happened. Crowds would  come toward the sites. They were given verbal  

warnings and then they were given additional  verbal warnings and they were shots were fired  

either in the air, sometimes in the ground.  And if they continued to come and threaten,  

there were times when there were people who were  uh engaged in in firefights. That happened. Oh,  

they were armed. Sometimes they were. They were.  Can you do you know of specific instances where   they were armed? I can probably get you some  specific information about that. I think I  

know the answer to that. I don't think there's  any evidence at all that they were. But I also   know that Are you okay with using live ammunition  um at aid distribution sites for families, women  

and children? Very rarely did this happen here at  all. Are you okay with that? No. I tell you what,  

I'm not okay with No, no, no. I think you are  so trying to put words in my mouth. You you said  

that they were firing back, but then there's no  evidence that they weren't. On a Sunday afternoon,   I can remember when there was widespread reports  on BBC, CNN, and the New York Times, and they  

said that 27 people were killed at a feeding site.  We had video extensively over that site. Not one  

single person, not only were they not shot, nobody  was shot at. There was not one bit of violence   that happened at that feeding site. Trying to get  me to defend BBC. Not going to do that. It's like  

defending Hamas. I I agree with you. I I don't  believe anything I see in the media. It's just   that it's really simple. If people are using,  and these were American contractors, by the way,  

these are not Israelis that I'm aware of.  American contractors run by some crypto minister  

or something was running the group. Um, if they're  using live ammunition at an aid distribution site,  

that strikes me as totally unacceptable. They  were not firing. Does that seem acceptable to  

you? They were not firing at people got killed.  There's a way to some of those people got killed   because Hamas were trying to keep them from  getting to the aid distribution sites because  

Hamas was controlling the food. Hamas made $500  million selling the food that was supposed to be  

given away for free. And what they were trying  to do is to keep people from going to the sites  

where they were getting food for free. When we  set GHF up, the first thing that happened I know,  

but I'm telling you, the first thing that people  said was, "Wow, this is the first time we've had   food that we got for free. Is it okay to shoot  unarmed people? I just told you it wasn't. That's  

awful. Yeah, it's awful. Of course it's awful. Um,  are all lives equal, do you think? Of course they  

are. So, the death of a Palestinian is every bit  as important, significant as the death of Israel.  

Why wouldn't it? Of course it is. There's no such  thing as a human soul that God made that is less  

valuable than another. That I'm pro-life. Me, too.  So, I believe that every life has intrinsic worth   and value. There's no such thing as a worthless or  a completely disposable life. That's what makes me  

pro-life. Tucker, I totally agree. And I believe  that from the conception until the end of natural  

life. Why I would never say when confronted with  the death of children, war is terrible because  

it minimizes the deaths of those children. It's  awful. And I don't think it minimizes. I think   it it is outrageous. It's a terrible thing.  I wish we never had war. Why do we have war?  

Fighting Wars on Israel's Behalf

We're about to have one with Iran. It looks like  how many Americans do you think will die in that   war? I hope none. None died last year when we  uh participated in the 12-day war. Not one.  

You said 20,000 would die and they didn't. I said  could and they could have and and they could die   now. And that's a real risk. How many boots on the  ground do you think the US has supplied for Israel  

over the course of its life? How many times have  we put soldiers on the ground for Israel? Well,  

we had the Iraq war um which was for Israel.  That wasn't for Israel. How was it for us? Well,  

because it was a retribution against 9/11. Now,  was it the best idea? Was Was Iraq involved in  

911? Our government thought so. Why are 9/11  documents still classified? I have no idea.  

Why Are 9-11 Files Still Classified?

Should they be unclassified? I think so. All of  them. Right. I have no problem with that. Me,   too. I like transparency. I like sunlight. I do.  I hope you'll call for that. I like free press.  

I like free speech. I totally agree. I really  I like all of that. But if no if there was no   con I've never seen I'm open to anything but I've  never seen any connection between the government  

of Saddam Hussein the secular ba'ist government of  Saddam Hussein and the terror attacks of 9/11. I  

don't know that there were I don't know right so  so I'm not sure but I don't know how why was that   Israel's fault well Benjamin Netanyahu now prime  minister of course exerted lots of pressure openly  

on the US government to take out to regime  change the Saddam government. I was there.   was in Washington and um and they complied.  I don't think there's any way to read it. I  

don't Do you think Israel leads the US and pushes  them and tells them what to do? Not on everything,  

of course, but what I think, let me be specific.  I think the uh Israeli government strongly pushed  

the United States to take out Saddam Hussein.  But there's no question about that. I think  

the Israeli government right now BB Netanyahu has  been in the White House seven times in one year.  

Yeah. Pushing for uh regime change in Iran. I  think they're on the verge of convincing this  

administration to affect regime. You think the  president is weak and is being pushed? I'm not  

saying that. I know. Well, I know. I know the  president's being pushed. Why do you think a   foreign leader was in the White House seven times  in one year? Are you okay with that? That's a  

Netanyahu's Many Visits to the White House

lie. You know, Israel is not just a friend or an  ally. It is a real partner. We have an incredible  

relationship with Israel in intelligence and in  military, in culture, in values. You know, to to  

be shocked that the Israeli prime minister would  have that many meetings, it's a lot. But I I want  

to ask you the question, do you think President  Trump is weak enough to let BB Netanyahu push  

him into something that he doesn't want to do? I  don't. Look, I think, and I don't know, of course,   the answer to every question, including this  one, but I think the president, President Trump,  

really doesn't like nuclear proliferation, and I  don't think he wants Iran to have a bomb. I think  

he really sincerely means I hope you don't want  them to have a bomb. Want them to have a bomb?   It I don't want anyone to have a bomb, including  Israel. I don't know why we're okay with Israel  

having nuclear weapons. I'm not I'm not okay  with Pakistan having them. I'm not okay with   Saudi having them. Israel's nuclear weapons were  created, of course, with nuclear material stolen  

The Nuclear Weapons That Israel Stole

from the United States, from a nuclear plant in  Pennsylvania. As I know, you know, I'm opposed   to all of it. I don't like nuclear weapons.  It's mass murder as far as I'm concerned. So,  

no, I don't want Iran to have a bomb, obviously.  The question is, what are the potential costs?  

And you have to factor that into any decision.  And and what are the costs if they were to get   a nuclear bomb? They've said for 47 years, death  to America. Well, I don't think they target us.  

I don't think Israel they've targeted President  Trump specifically. Yeah. They've hired a person   to assassinate Iran, BBC and Hamas, not defending  them. Good. All I'm saying, we're in agreement  

on that. I want our country is not thriving and  we're spending, you know, tens and tens and tens  

Why Is the US Sending Israel So Much Money?

of billions of dollars over time defending Israel  and helping it prosecute all. You know where that  

money goes? Goes to a lot of places. But but let's  let's talk about that a minute. $3.8 8 billion  

a year. That money goes right back to the US to  purchase weapon systems. For example, every round  

of ammo that the IDF shoots is manufactured  just outside where I live in Little Rock,   Arkansas. Mhm. The components, a lot of them for  the Iron Dome and the A3 missile defense systems.  

Yeah. Are manufactured near Camden, Arkansas,  which needs it. By the way, Camden's economically  

depressed. You know the area. I do. And there  are thousands and thousands of American jobs.  

And there are billions and billions of dollars of  expenditures that Israel makes in the US and buys  

the things that we I know how defense contracting  works. I'm from Russia. No, I I know this. I guess   what I'm saying is America's not thriving at all.  And you think it's Israel's fault? I I don't think  

it's Israel's fault. Okay. Well, good. I I I think  I just think that what we're doing isn't working   at all. And America is not rich. The president is  doing some amazing things to get us back on Trump.  

Not attacking Trump. Okay. I'm merely saying that  over say the last 20 years, America's not gotten   richer or freer um at all. And I come to Israel  and the infrastructure we're flying in and I said  

to my buddy, I was like, "Man, the looks first  looks great. I love the agriculture in Israel   cuz it's beautiful. I love green. I love plants."  I remember when it didn't look like that. Yeah.  

Yeah. First time I came here 53 years ago. It's  great. It did not look like that. Great. looks   a lot nicer than our country and it has higher  standard of living. It has nicer roads uh than  

the United States. And so it's like, okay, why  are we sending all this money to a country that  

Is Huckabee Okay With Israel Providing Free Abortions?

has a higher standard of living than ours? I don't  know that they have a higher standard of living.   They do actually. They have free healthcare. They  also have free abortion. Are you okay with that?  

I personally don't like that. Why would we be  subsidizing? Why would we send any money? Why   would we send any money to a country that provides  free abortion? Because the money that we send  

does not pay for healthare. It does not pay for  abortion. It pays for military. It's like if they   don't spend it on this, they'll spend it on that.  They do spend it on that and then we get many more  

times back and the return on investment when we  say we're not sending you any more money as long   as you have free abortion. Well, that would be a  policy decision. I would be okay with it because  

I hate abortion. I think it's horrible. How much  do you hate it? Why are we sending the money if   they're paying for free? They're not paying for  abortions with the money and because we in turn  

get billions of dollars. The return on investment  is estimated somewhere between 400 and 1200. I've   heard these numbers. I just live there and I know  and I'm by the way I'm for American manufacturing.  

The defense industry is totally corrupt and CD  as you know. However, I like to see American  

companies thrive. Like it's complicated. I'm not  an extremist or an absolutist on really anything   other than abortion. However, net net, as we say,  our country is not really thriving. And I we're  

also totally Why is that the case? Is it because  we've done a lousy job controlling our borders,   a lousy job of controlling our economy? It's a  lot of things, but we own that. I think President  

Trump is doing remarkable things to turn it  around. I cannot imagine any president. Oh,  

but if you're saying the country is in trouble,  listen, saying we're out of money actually credit   to what the president is doing to get us out  of debt because I think that what he's doing  

economically, I'm not supporting Hamas and  I'm not attacking Trump. Okay. Just with those   baseline agreements, it's also true that like  our debt is not sustainable. And so given that,  

like what do you think it will cost? What what  did it cost to move all these to move the fleet  

off Iran into the Persian Gulf? A lot less than  it would to bury a lot of Americans if they ever   got a long range ballistic missile. A lot less.  I want you to understand that when Iran has told  

us for 47 years they're going to kill us, do you  think they would do it if they had the capacity  

militarily? What would happen if Iran took out any  of the energy facilities in the Gulf or took out  

a bunch of them? What would happen to the United  States economy, do you think? Well, our economy  

probably would survive because we have energy  independence thanks to President Trump. Would   survive. Our economy is based on our markets. What  What do you think? It would be a terrible thing  

to happen globally. It's why Iran is a global  threat. It's why Iran through its proxies. Tucker,  

this is another thing people They're not blowing  up energy infrastructure right now, but if we try   to regime change them, they have said that they  will. I don't know if they will or not. either is  

that a risk that but they have their own problems  to defend if they try to do that and they lose  

their own energy capacity worried about so if  they took out and I again I don't know what's   going to happen and I guess we're not supposed  to think about worst case because that makes us  

pro-Islamic or something but I'm an American and  I don't want a depression in our country it's too  

fractured and unstable right now I don't think we  want that at all okay none of us want that none   of us want that not right now we don't not at all  I don't want it next year next week 10 Seriously,  

now all these states are basically in a state  of insurrection against the federal government.   They're not enforcing the most basic law of the  land, which is immigration. And thank goodness,  

President Trump is pushing back and he's I  agree. I'm just saying seeking to force if all   of a sudden compliance markets just tanked and  gas tripled or whatever and you had, you know,  

like a severe recession or something worse. That's  a massive cost and I don't see anybody factoring  

in that possibility. Iran has said it will do  it. You've said 10 times they're evil. Okay,   I believe you. Then why wouldn't they take  out the Qatari gas fields they share with Qar  

or refining prochemicals extraction in any of  the Gulf countries? That that would [ __ ] us.  

Let's well energy wise again we have independence  because President Trump put measures in place that  

gave us the capacity. We set international energy  prices in the United States. In some ways we do  

because our own market and our own production has  a whole lot to do with what those world costs are  

going to be. If you took Saudi energy production  or Qatari energy production or Emirati energy   production offline that is making an assumption  that if there were regime change that they would  

be more effective at attacking than we would be  defending. And that's a pretty Can we defend the  

the straits for moves? Can we defend all of that  energy infrastructure? Is anyone even asking these   questions or it's all like a Mark Leven episode  where are bad. Okay, they are certainly asking  

the questions. That's part of the whole process.  Saying is it I've raised this before and it's like  

shut up. You're taking money from the jihadis.  I've never taken a dime from anybody. Obviously,  

I just care about the United States and it freaks  me out and no one else seems worried about this.   In caring about the US, you should care about the  fact that the proxies of Iran have moved globally.  

12 Central and South American countries have  Hezbollah deeply embedded. Venezuela one of the  

worst. They're in the Western Hemisphere already.  Do we know how many? Where would you rank that on   the on the like list of concerns for the average  American? Hezbollah in I doubt most Americans  

think about it. I think about it because I know  what they do. I know that if it weren't for Iran,   there wouldn't be Hamas. There wouldn't be  the Houthis. There wouldn't be Hezbollah. We  

wouldn't have the problem on the border with  Lebanon. We wouldn't have the problem with   Yemen. We wouldn't have the difference problem  on the border with Leb I'm as I'm an American.  

I'm not having any problems on the border with  Lebanon right now. I live in Maine. We don't   have problems on the border of Lebanon. Like  what are you even talking about? No offense.  

There's 700,000 Americans who live in Israel  for one thing. Does that matter to you? Well,   of course every American matters to me. Every  life you say matters the same. So that should  

matter when my country like shelling civilians and  civilians get killed and displaced. That should  

matter to all of us. But I mean there's a genocide  going on like in all kinds of different countries  

there. There's a lot that's sad and broken about  the world. We know that as Christians. Satan  

rules the world. But our job as like members of a  nation state is look after our community families,  

right? So I don't think any of the concerns that  you've just raised, which I think are all real,   I'm not disputing them at all, are even in  like the top hundred for Americans. Can the  

US government be spending this much time and money  worrying about things that are not on the list of  

Americans concerns? Do we have self-government?  Does it matter what Americans actually think   or doesn't it? Of course it does. But it also  matters how much does it matter what the threat  

is to Americans. Do you think there's a threat  to Americans because of the proliferation of the   proxies in in Iran? Conceivably there is. I'm not  pro Ron, but but beyond conceivably, do you think  

that they mean it when they say 47 cartels like  in my town and no one's doing anything about it at  

all? I'm hearing a lot doing anything about that.  No one's doing anything about it at all. Okay,   that's a fact. We have a huge country. This is a  country the size of New Jersey with no resources.  

You know, it's just a tiny little country. Mhm.  We're from a huge continentalized country that's  

totally diverse, very, very hard to manage and  police. And we have a lot of problems. And I just  

think if you ask Americans what do they want to  spend their time and money worrying about fixing,  

improving, no one's going to mention the border  with Lebanon that I know. Do you think? I doubt  

they will. But this don't like to think that there  are people that the US government has monitoring  

what the threats are to Americans long term. Do  you think there's a threat? The question is when  

people talk Well, but I don't know that Saddam  ever said he was going to take down America,  

but the the Iranian regime has said for 47 years  they are. Will you just if they had the capacity  

of a long range ballistic missile and nuclear  capability, do you think they'd light that puppy  

up and send it to us? I don't know. Um, but I know  Well, I know this from sitting here last year,   four wars that I went through in less than  a year, the Iranians rain down ballistic  

missiles. Can I ask you a question? Like, how  much does it matter what Americans think? Well,  

it matters every bit what Americans think. That's  why Americans vote. It's why Americans have the   opportunity to have free speech. We want them to  have that. Okay. So, what percentage of Americans  

How Many Americans Support War With Iran?

support a war with Iran? I don't know. Do you  know? I do. It's I think it's around I saw the  

numbers yesterday. I think it was like 21%. Okay.  Is that enough to have a war with Iran? We don't  

live in a world where you have a poll taken to  find out whether our policy should be a particular  

direction because Oh, I thought I thought you just  said that democracy. No, we care deeply about it.  

But on the other hand, do we make the decisions  of foreign policy and even domestic policy based  

on we care deeply about it? In what sense? How  in if we're ignoring it, then in what sense do  

we quote care deeply about it? Well, I think we  care deeply when we see there's a threat. No,  

but about Americans opinions. So, you've got  350 million Americans. Um, they vote they voted  

in this last election on the basis in part of  the promise no more wars. Okay. So, now we're   about to have a war. Looks like 80% of people are  against it. In that range, let's say it's 70%,  

but nowhere near majority support for this war.  And it's not direct democracy, but it is a form  

of democracy. It's representative democracy.  The ultimate form of democracy in our system   in a republic because we're not a true democracy.  We're a republic. Exactly. Right. It's a mediated  

democracy. It'll be an opportunity for Americans  to vote if they think that we've made the wrong   policy decisions. I personally think the president  is making the right policy decision. But I guess  

it but you just said it matters deeply what  Americans think and if the overwhelming majority   are against it in what sense does it matter cuz  what I hear is it matters what they think but it  

really doesn't matter what they think because no  you take it in you certainly ingest that and then   what do you once you ingest it then you make sure  that you have you just got it goes out the other  

end obviously no it doesn't it doesn't Tucker  but you also have information that the average  

American may not have they may not know what the  threat is. How many Americans know that Hezbollah  

is in 12 Western Hemisphere countries? How many  Americans care? Well, I would hope they would all   care. How many Americans know? How many people  from Iran from terrorist cells have come across  

Joe Biden's open border? How how many Americans?  They definitely care about that. Okay, you care.   Why haven't they been rounded up? But they're  trying, but you got all these blue state mayors  

and governors making it very difficult. But thank  god President Trump is trying to get it done.   Look, I'm totally all for that completely. I guess  what I'm saying is that most Americans over I've  

never met an American who thinks other than like  the people who have ideological reasons to pretend  

they think it that the imminent threat to America  is anything having to do with Iran. Imminent   threats to America include like bankruptcy  from too much debt, your son ODing on fentanyl,  

your neighborhood completely changing because  unlike Israel, Americans don't have a right to   their country. It can just be completely changed  by their legislature. New people can show up from  

foreign countries and not speak your language and  there's nothing you can do about because you don't   have a right because you're not BB. Can you feel  the resentment? Because it's real. I'm not against  

Israel. I'm against the total destruction. You  hide that very well. I'm mad at my lawmakers for  

not protecting my country with the care they've  protected Israel. I don't think that your country,  

my country, our country has spent that much  time protecting Israel. I asked you a little   bit ago. They have no time protecting my  country. No, I ask you. Well, actually,  

they do. How? They are the tip of the spear. Every  enemy they have is our enemy. Our country. Things  

that are targeted toward us often go through them.  How do we have 60 million illegal aliens if they  

protected my country? Well, that we didn't protect  our country because we had a president that opened   up the borders and didn't give a rip going on  since Reagan 1986. Yeah, but that's 40 years.  

President Trump the credit for having closed the  border. I'm giving I love the fact I campaigned   for Trump cuz he said he'll close the border. He  did. Amen. Thank you, Trump. But we had Reagan,  

then we had Bush. Then we had Clinton. Then we  had Bush again. Then we had that guy Obama and  

then you know the presidents. Yeah. And they all  presided over my country's total transformation  

from a nice clean affluent orderly society into  like pretty kind of third world actually. That's  

not protecting us. That's behaving with total  contempt for my country. You said a moment  

ago that we do more or you inferred that we do  more for Israel than we do for ourselves. Do you  

believe that? No. What? I don't I didn't say we do  more for Israel. It's like, but where's the care?   Where's the concern? Where's the Holy smokes?  There are drug cartels in your neighborhood.  

You're telling me about the border with Lebanon  and like Hezbollah or Hezbollah, whatever you   call it, in some Latin American country. I don't  care. There are drug cartels in my neighborhood.  

I know people who've died of fentanyl os. Where  the fentanyl come from? Probably from China.   It's from Mexico. From China through Yeah. The  precursor chemicals they say come from China.  

I get it. And who's in that axis with China? Iran.  Uh Larry Frink is in that access with No, actually  

actually the heads of our biggest corporations are  in that axis with China. I don't care about Iran  

at all. I care about America. And if blowing up  Iran makes my country richer and safer, I'm for  

it. And if it doesn't, I'm totally opposed. It's  that simple. I think most Americans feel that way.  

Was the War on Iraq Really About 9-11?

I asked you a question a little bit ago you never  got back to because I think it's an important one   because one of the things that I I sense a tension  with you. You feel like that we do too much for  

Israel. We're getting nothing from it. And I  ask you how many I don't think we're getting   how many boots on the ground has the US placed on  behalf of Israel? However many went to Iraq. We  

did that for Israel. No, I don't think we did.  You said we did it because of 9/11. That's was  

the US justification for it. But it wasn't 911.  So what was the actual reason? Well, that's the  

US government told us it was for 911. They told us  that they were part of it that they had weapons of   mass destruction. They knew they had nothing to do  with 911. Obviously, there's no evidence. So what  

was the actual Israel was not in that component.  Israel had no influence on our decision to invade  

Iraq. That's not what the people who made the  decision say. They say Israel Well, let me get   back to the point. Gave us that information about  the fake weapons of mass destruction. What do you  

think the question came from? BB, how many how  many Americans put their boots on the ground for   Israel? The answer is zero. Everybody who served  in Iraq put their boots on the ground for Israel.  

Did not. Did not. Where did we get the information  about the weapons of mass destruction? That wasn't   real. We didn't get that from You're saying  we got that from Israel? That Israel was one  

pushed us into that? Well, absolutely. You really  believe that? I know that for a fact. And so does   every Yes. This has been uh widely written about  and discussed. And I'm not attacking Israel. Like  

they thought it was in their interest to take  out a government that was paying the families of   suicide bombers. I get it. I'm not mad at Israel  about that. I never have been. I'm mad at the Bush  

administration and all the people who went along  with this to the detriment of my country. That's  

who I'm mad at. Not Israel. BB is doing what he  can for his country. Whether you agree with him   or not, I want my leaders to do the same for my  country. That's it. I think the present leadership  

is doing just that. I truly do. And I don't  think that it's at all accurate to even intimate  

that tiny little Israel is pushing the US into  something it does not want to do. I totally Our  

leaders appear to want to do it. Our public does  not want to do it at all. The public does not want  

war with Iran. BB does. He's gotten seven seven  trips to the White House. The average American  

Hold on. The average American doesn't have that  level of access and a foreign leader does. Seven  

in one year. And now we're moving toward war  with Iran. The average American doesn't want   that war. The average American is outraged. Don't  you understand? I'm not the strongest president  

I've ever seen in my lifetime. Going back to  Eisenhower for God. If you're an American. No,   no, no. Listen to me, Tucker. For God's sake,  I'm not attacking Trump. I like Trump. I know,  

but you're making it sound like that he is being  pulled into something that he really doesn't want  

to do or pulled into something cuz he's persuaded.  I'm neither saying that nor implying. I was in   the meeting last week. I was in the meetings last  summer. I can assure you, President Trump is not  

being led into something at all by Prime Minister  Netanyahu. To be clear, I'm neither saying that  

nor implying it. what I am stating out loud is  true and that's that Prime Minister Netanyahu  

BB Netanyahu has way more influence over American  foreign policy than Americans do. And we know this  

because he wants a war with Iran. The overwhelming  majority of Americans don't want a war with Iran  

and we're very likely to get a war with Iran. So  who has more influence, Benjamin Netanyahu or 80%  

of Americans? I'm saying that's outrageous. That's  all I'm saying. I would counter that. BB Netanyahu  

does not want a war with Iran. To say that he  wants a war, you know who's going to be at the  

very front of that? His people. And I don't agree  with that. I'm with him enough to know he does  

not want a war. He doesn't. Does Does he think  that there may be a necessity of taking a war  

in order to prevent an attack on not just Israel?  But I think I know too much. I mean, let's let's  

Israel's Sabotaging of US Negotiations With Iran

be real, okay? So, there was uh you know, Steve  Wickoff, in my opinion, is just a sterling guy,  

just a good guy, excellent guy. I that's my  view and kind of pro-American and just couldn't  

be nicer and wants to do the right thing and he's  probably Trump's best friend. He and maybe Jared,  

too, are involved in a negotiation with Hamas.  Um, or you mean with Iran? With Iran. Yeah. I'm  

so sorry. Okay. And the Israeli government short  circus it by hitting Iran. So like they What do  

you mean they short circuit by hitting Iran?  They did everything they could to shut down  

the negotiations between the United States,  the Trump administration, and Iran. And look,  

I wouldn't. They're acting again in their own  interest, but our country should also act in  

its own interest. That's all I'm saying. So don't  tell me that BB doesn't want a war with Iran. He  

doesn't. If Jared Kushner and Steve Witco could  be successful in getting the president's demands,  

and keep in mind, these are the president's  demands. What are those demands? No enrichment,   no nuclear weapon. Quit killing your own people  in the streets by the tens of thousands. You,  

you and I both agree that it's a horrible thing to  kill your own citizens, which Iran is doing. It's   a horrible thing to kill anybody's citizens.  Anybody's citizens. We agree on that. Except  

that they're 14-year-olds working for Hamas. But  whatever. It's still a tragedy. No, it is. Sorry,  

I'm being a jerk. You really are being a jerk. I  am. I know. I am being a jerk on it. I am such a   jerk. I'm going to write down admitted. I know  he's a jerk. Oh, I am a jerk. Everyone knows  

that. I mean, I'm trying to really trying. Okay.  Okay. No, but I agree with you 100%. Of course,   it's a trap. If that could be done, and I pray  it can. Yes. And you know why? Number one,  

because it would be wonderful for everybody.  Number two, if there is a war, you're going to   be 6,000 miles from it. You know where I'm going  to be? In the bullseye. Do I want there to be a  

war? No. Do Israelis want there to be a war?  No. How many I keep hearing Israel is fighting  

a sevenfront war right now. What are those seven  fronts? Well, you got Lebanon, you have Egypt.  

Now, Egypt is not an active war, but you have the  Muslim Brotherhood within Egypt. You've got uh the  

Muslim Brotherhood in Jordan. You've got Syria.  Wait, they're fighting war with Jordan with the  

Muslim Brotherhood that is in Jordan, not directly  with Jordan, not the government of Jordan.   What are they? You've got Hezbollah, you've got in  Lebanon, Hoodis in Yemen, you have Hamas in Gaza,  

you have uh the threats that come from Iran.  And how many is that? That's seven. That's  

seven. Okay. I give you an eighth one. You know  the eighth one? The media. No, I would tell you  

there's an eighth front war they fight. How many  journalists is Israel killed in Gaza? I don't  

How Many Journalists Has Israel Killed in Gaza?

know. Over 200. That seems like Now, are they  real journalists? Because a lot of those people   that were supposedly journalists were actually  Hamas fighters that are documented Hamas fighters.  

So that's why I ask you how many are actual  journalists. You know, I I don't know. But a   lot of them were. I mean, they worked for big news  organizations and they had press written on their  

chest. Yeah. Some of them had UNRA cars and they  were also working for Hamas. So are you concerned?  

So do you think that over 200 journalists killed  in Gaza, all fake journalists who deserve to   be killed? I have no idea how many the total  number is. I I don't have their credentials,  

but I know that there were quite a few that were  actually Hamas fighters that protected Hamas. Ask  

the hostages. The hostages came back and they  started telling about the number of people that   were doctors in hospitals that held them hostage  in their homes or the number of people who were  

pretending to be journalists who were actually  holding them hostage. As someone who is telling   you that there's there's a lot more to what  as someone whose tax dollars helped pay for  

killing all those civilians in Gaza, I feel like  I have a right to know how many were killed and   Israel won't let outside observers in to figure  it out. And I I'm frustrated. I just want to say  

Is Huckabee Concerned About the Persecution of Christians?

that my last question is about Christians.  Um both Christians who visit and Christians  

uh who live here, particularly in the West Bank.  Um, I spoke to someone recently, um, a Christian  

minister who grew up in a town right outside  Bethlehem. We would know it as Shepherd's Field  

um, in the New Testament where the shepherds were  tending their flocks in Matthew and of course the   angels come and announce the arrival of Jesus and  in nearby Bethlehem. His family's been Christian,  

he says, for 2,000 years. He says his where  he grew up is now surrounded by settlements  

um, of people who are not from Israel at all.  A lot of them are from the United States,   Jewish settlements. They have different roads  uh that the native Christians are not allowed  

to use. I don't quite know how that works. Um and  he described a story where his mother was shot  

outside their house by an IDF soldier for reasons  no one ever explained. She survived um but no one  

was ever punished for it or even explained why  they did it. And he basically described being   terrorized by settlers. Uh, and I wonder if that's  a concern for you for the native population, the  

indigenous population. Did you say this happened  in Bethlehem? Uh, it happened in Shepherd's Field.  

So, it's a Christian village. Beth Sahor, I think  is its name outside right outside Bethlehem. If  

it's in Bethlehem, it's not in Bethlehem. It's  again, it's I think it's Betahor, I believe,   is the name of the village because there are no  Israelis in Bethlehem. None. There are no Jews  

in Bethlehem. Are there new settlements outside  Bethlehem where he is from? Uh over in in area C,  

but not in area A. There are none. Well, he he  describes the town he grew up in. And I guess I  

I wonder why a Christian whose family's been there  for 2,000 years. There are Palestinian Christians  

throughout uh today in Samaria. That That's  true. I've been over to visit them. I know. I  

know. I know you have. and some have been um you  know we've advocated for some that are Muslim but  

they're American citizens and we advocated because  there was uh but why can't they just drive into   Jerusalem to go to the church of the holy supplr?  Why do they need a permit to do that if they're  

from there? Because of the acts of terrorism that  has made it impossible to do it. You know how many   suicide Christians you asked this question. So  what do we do? Just say you're a Christian. Oh  

yeah, I'm a Christian. But you're wearing a  suicide bomb. Do Christians do suicide bombs?  

They could they could if all they have to do is  just say announce I'm a Christian. There were over   a thousand. Why don't just get an identity card  says I'm a Christian. Let me just finish this.  

Before Israel put the the green line up and before  they took great care to put checkpoints in place,  

there were over a thousand suicide bombers in  one year. It was awful. I remember it. But I  

don't think any of them were Christians. And they  may not have been. Okay. But but my point is we we   could find out if they were and so you're you're  saying we just trust somebody if they come up  

and say I'm a Christian I just want to go to the  holy supplr. Let me in. What I'm saying is that   Christians have a right to go to the holy supplr.  Israel does not own it. They've had possession of  

it since 1967. It doesn't belong to BB. It belongs  to me and you and every other Christian. BB was a  

probably a young person. I'm not even sure he was  No Christian should ever be barred from the church  

of the holy supplr. Should Christians be barred  from Joseph's tomb in Nabilus? I don't know. Let's  

just start with the church of the holy self and I  don't understand on what grounds they are. Well,  

they can't if they're Christians at Betsah.  So, I don't understand why they're a threat.  

They're not a threat. And why won't you as the  Christian minister, US ambassador to the state  

of Israel say to the prime minister, "You can't  allow this. Your country exists in part because  

American Christians support you. So, you have  to treat us well." Part of the problem, Tucker,   is that in the Palestinian Authority, and  that's what we're talking about, there are  

Christians. Look, I know some Christians who live  in Bethlehem, and that is area A. Bethlehem was  

80 plus% Christian before Oslo. 80% Christian,  less than 20% Muslim. Today, it's flipped. It's  

now 80 plus% Muslim. It's very few Christian. And  some of the Christians that I personally know and  

know well are Zionist. Let that surprise you.  They're Zionist. They're hardcore. Some are are  

Let me finish my train of thought here. Okay.  So, in the Palestinian Authority, they still  

teach children from the time they're five years  old that the greatest thing in the world is to   kill Jews. And that if they end up being a martyr  and if they kill Jews, they will get a pension for  

life if they die. And if they don't, they'll get  a paycheck for life and their families will. And  

it's called the prisoners and martyrs fund. It's  we call it pay for slay in the US. It is against  

our law. A lot of Christians collecting on that.  I don't know. Zero. So my question remains and I'm  

a little bit frustrated at this point. I because  I'm not defending Hamas. I hate suicide bombing. I   hate suicide. I hate violence. I hate the killing  of children. Period. Why can't a Christian who was  

born there, whose family's been there for 2,000  years, following Jesus for 2,000 years, drive,  

cuz it's really close to the Church of the Holy  Supplr. He poses no threat. And why can't the  

United States government advocate for him to do  that? We do advocate for Americans because that's  

our job. And it doesn't matter whether they're  Palestinian or Israeli. We do that. But as far  

as when they How many Americans are being held in  Israeli prisons right now? Um total I don't have  

a exact number on that. I don't know. How can you  advocate for them if you don't know how many there   are? Well, everyone that we know we go visit.  Our consular goes there almost every week and  

visits the Americans. It's not a large number  uh as far as Americans, but when we have them,  

we go we go to their trials when they're on trial.  So, yeah, we do a lot more than you've given us  

credit for. Oh, I'm giving you credit. No, no,  you're giving credit for doing that because we   don't get much. No, we don't get much. By the way,  not every embassy does that. I happen to know for  

a fact they don't advocate for Americans in jail.  And we take our consular services across into the  

Palestinian Authority and help people over there.  Some of those are Christians, some are not,   some are Muslim. But if they're Americans and they  have American citizenship, an American passport,  

we help them. That makes me so happy to hear. I go  to Ramla, I sit down with the vice president and  

the prime minister of the Palestinian Authority.  We try to work ways to make things better. But  

the reason that sometimes it's not just a absolute  free passage, I'll tell you why. because there are  

too many instances of terrorist acts and Israel is  not going to allow themselves. But the Christians  

didn't do it and they're not going to do it and  Christians pay for all of this. They pay for a lot   of this. Horrible. It's it's very you can say it's  unfair. But here's you can't punish the innocent.  

How's that? But you got to somehow make sure that  you screen people. And that's why the checkpoints.  

Let me tell you what happened not too very long  ago. We had a humanitarian aid truck that came  

across from Jordan. The driver was supposedly  vetted. He was a former Jordanian military person.  

He came across the checkpoint. Everything should  be fine, right? He gets out of his truck. He takes  

a gun and he shoots two of the people, I believe  it, who are the Israelis at the checkpoint. One of   whom was a young person less than a year in  the job. His mother teaches in the American  

school where our embassy people go in Herselia.  I get to make the phone call to the mother. I'm  

going to tell you something. It was not the most  pleasant day of my life. It sounds awful. It is   awful. And so those kind of incidences are the  reason that it is difficult to go from Judea,  

Samaria, or the West Bank. Call it whatever you  want. But if you're in area A, which is under   the control of the Palestinian Authority, and  your education has been that killing Jews is a  

wonderful thing. I'm talking about the Christians.  But the Christians, if they go to those schools,   they're still going to get that education.  When was the last time there was a suicide bomb  

detonated by Christians? I don't know. Never. Let  me ask you this. Look, I'm not trying to defend,  

but I'm saying to you that if the curriculum  doesn't get changed, if the pay for slay doesn't   get changed, that doesn't apply. You have a  culture. Well, it you say it doesn't apply. Maybe  

it never has happened. I don't know whether it has  ever happened. When will Palestinians in the West   Bank have the same rights as Israelis in the West  Bank? Are you talking about the ones that live  

in the Palestinian Authority? I'm talking about  people who live in the villages they grew up in,   but changed hands, went from one government to  another. whether they live under the Palestinian  

Authority government or whether they live under  Israeli. If they live under area A, do you know   the difference? I do. I'm saying if they live  under area A, they live under the Palestinian  

Authority government. They don't live under  Israeli government. What? But it's controlled   by the Israeli government completely. There's  no airport. They control the utilities. I mean,  

this is it's silly. I understand there's a form of  self-government, but the big decisions are made by   the Israeli government. Obviously, I've been  there. I know this. And you know it, too. So,  

how long does this go on? You say that God gave  the nation of Israel the right to this land.  

Why not just take it, declare it Israel, and make  everyone a citizen? I don't understand why that's   not happening. Well, you know what? There are  people who think that that would be a much better  

think. I think it it very well could be. And if  you ask certain people living in the PA under  

their very corrupt government, where 91% of the  people think the government is hopelessly corrupt,   that's what the numbers are. They would tell you  that they would be better off if the Israelis were  

the governing authority. Everyone gets voting  rights. Would that be the case if they were all   under Israeli authority? You know, there are do  you you realize there are lots of ArabIsraelis?  

I know. And they vote. Do you know they serve in  the Knesset? I'm very aware of that. And I'm just  

wondering and they serve on the Supreme Court. And  did you know that it was an Arab who sentenced a   former president and prime minister to prison? I  I know this. So the qu I just want to know what's  

going to happen. You know how many Jews get to  help govern Saudi Arabia or Qatar or Syria? I  

I'm not attacking Jews. It's a much more open  government in society and you make it sound like  

that the Israeli sound that way. I'm just asking  I No, I am not attacking the nation of Israel. I'm  

just wondering what the plan is. So, I've been  hearing my whole life how bad the PA is. Okay,   great. But what's the plan here? So they're moving  all these Americans, people from around the world  

into settlements subsidized by Americans in the  West Bank. No, they're not moving them from around  

the world to the settlements. They're people who  make aliyah. They come and these are is these are  

Israelis who live in Israel. Well, there are a  lot of people and area C is Israel. Okay. Okay.  

But does it remain a territory under military  control forever? Does it just become part of  

the state? You talking about the Palestinian  Authority? Correct. That's the big question.   Do you believe in a two-state solution? And if  you do, I would I would show you a map and I would  

ask you because this is u I don't know. I don't  know what I think. I just think you need to treat  

people like human beings and that's not happening  obviously. And that would be you don't glorify   their killing. Yeah. Let them go to their church  if they want. See the yellow parts? Yeah. That's  

Palestinian Authority. The tan parts, that's  area B. That's the area that is mixed. Israel has  

military authority, but the Palestinians can live  anywhere they want to in there. And the blue area,  

that's area C. Area C is Israel. And Israelis  can live in Israel. That's what it is. Now,  

when people say they want a two-state solution, I  love to show them a map like this. And I ask them,  

where does that state line up? There is no  continuous work. You know, we've got a lot  

of states in the United States that need help. So,  I'm not going to weigh in on other people's states   to be totally honest. I just don't want to pay for  it anymore and just want to fix our own country.  

But let me ask you one last question, which is how  Christians are treated in Jerusalem. I've talked  

to so many who've been spit on. Uh I so many  how many? Uh well, two yesterday. Two. Okay.  

Yeah. Both Catholic clergy and both told me the  same thing. Anglican clergy. I interviewed I just  

had dinner recently with a Greek uh patriarch.  Well, there have been a million stories about  

this. Yeah, I know there are instances where  Christians get heckled. Usually it's people who   are wearing clerical robes and they're wearing  crosses and it shouldn't happen. It's horrible.  

It is bad for that to happen as it is to spit on  somebody wearing a kip in New York City. Great.   Terrible. It's horrible. And actually, I should  to be fair, there is, and I just learned this,  

a Jewish Israeli group that keeps track of  Christians being spit on in Jerusalem because  

they're offended by it. And God bless them for  keeping track and for being offended by it. But  

there are an awful lot of examples of that. And  my question to you, you're against it. Of course,  

your Christian clergy horribly against it. What is  that? And so is the prime minister, the president,   the foreign minister. So is I think every No one  would defend that thinking person. But what is  

it? Why are they spitting on Christian? It's very  limited. It's very, very isolated. Where does it   come from? But for the most part, you know what?  As Christians, we have freedom of movement here.  

Tucker, I go to church every Sunday. I play bass  guitar in my church band. I get it. I don't get   hassled being a Christian. Everyone here knows  I'm the first evangelical to be ambassador to  

Israel. Do you think they hate me here? No. Are  evangelicals recognized by the state of Israel?  

Yeah, they are. Yeah. Okay. And and welcomed and  and appreciated. No, but like as a as a religious  

like are there evangelical churches in Israel?  My gosh, yes. There's 184,000 Christians in I  

know. I know. and much larger than but there are  churches that are non-denominational evangelical  

here. Of course there are and and it ranges  from when you say non-denominational some of  

them are affiliated Baptist Assembly of God some  of them are truly non-denominational Pentecostal   some are messianic churches right where um most  of the people are um ethnically Jewish but they  

are Messianic they believe in Jesus there are a  lot of those churches and they're spread out all   over Israel so um but you don't Oh I there I know  a lot of Christians in Israel by the way us and I,  

as I said, I really hope I can come back and  talk to more, but and come to church with me. Oh,  

I definitely would love that. Why, and I mean it,  too. Why would people spit on? Like, where does  

that come from? I think it's from an evil heart.  Yeah. What else would it be? I agree. I mean,   I don't think anybody would ever spit on  another person, even if it was, you know,  

I don't care what a person's religion is or what  a person's nationality is. I don't hate anybody.   I wouldn't spit on anybody. I wouldn't heckle  anyone. And I find it repulsive. Nothing about  

it is defensible. I will say that the one, this  was off camera, but I interviewed this Christian  

uh leader here and I said, "Oh, that's so awful."  And he goes, "You know, I feel blessed because  

Jesus was spit on and it's an opportunity for  humility for me." And I thought, "Wow, that's a   Christian." Let me tell you this. I've been coming  in and out of Jerusalem and Israel for 50, well,  

soon to be 53 years. Before I came as ambassador,  I made over a 100 trips here. I've never been spat  

on. I've never had someone yell at me. Um, I've  never had an experience where I felt uncomfortable  

or that I was unwelcome. Um, if you spit on  someone wearing a yamak in New York City, you  

go right to jail. They would not put up with that  for one second. And they do put up here because   it still happens. I'm not sure they do go to jail  in New York City. They should and they should go  

to jail here. I'm against it. I'm They should go  to jail here. Amen. So, there were all these uh  

Christian ministers who were brought over here,  evangelicals, in December. Uh and I think mostly  

to attack me, but also probably they had other  Oh, they really weren't here to attack you. I'm   just joking. They were attacking me, but whatever.  Um and but they were flown over by the state. the  

state paid for it and they had a conference here.  I got one of the guides that they received when  

they arrived and I think it's real and it says  don't preach about Jesus when you're in Israel. We  

don't we don't allow that. Don't do that. Really?  Yeah. Why would a Christian minister agree not to  

preach about Jesus? I'm not sure because I have  I've never heard someone tell another Christian  

minister not to do that. Interesting. Good. Well,  I was I was totally baffled. What would be the  

purpose of going to church as a Christian if you  didn't talk about Jesus? Agree more. Thank you. I  

can assure you that that the church I attend, we  talk about Jesus. I mean, we pray in the name of   Jesus. I don't get it. To anyone else outside the  church, are you allowed like could I stand on the  

corner and just tell people about Jesus here? You  could. I'm not saying you'd get applause or that  

people Right. That's fine. But I'm But I'm saying  there are people that There's no law against that   though. Not that I'm aware of. The only laws that  that I know of, you can't proitize someone under  

the age of 18. And you cannot offer people things  of value in order to cause them to listen to your  

presentation. For example, I can't say, "Hey, for  $10, would you let me give you this gospel track   and and scream at you?" Can't do that, right?  Uh I don't know if it's enforced. I'm I'm not  

sure. I don't ever hear anyone arrested for it.  But there no there's no law against just like   preaching to people. walk down to the old city,  you'll hear people, you know, out there preaching  

on the street. Now, are they effective? I don't  know. I'm not sure that people are stopping and   falling on their knees and saying, "This is what  I've been waiting for." I don't know. But what  

I'm telling you is that the idea that you can't  say it. I know that there are places in the rest  

of this region where you can't do that. For  sure. Yeah. Cutter, you can't wear a cross in  

public. For sure. You can't pray in public. I  see a lot of people wearing crosses in cutter,  

but in cutter, I don't know. I have, but I don't  know what the laws are. Yeah. In Saudi Arabia,  

don't think so. I doubt it. The one place is an  exception is the Amiradis, and I love those folks  

because they are so um progressive and they're  doing so many things to change the the template  

of things. They have a Abraham house that is it  is a combination synagogue, church, and mosque.  

That's pretty amazing, isn't it? That they have  the same building and they use it for all three   of the major religions of the world. And I think  that's incredible. Um, but they're really trying  

to do things that are beyond what anyone else  in the region. They changed their textbooks.  

They teach that Israel is not a nation they  should hate or seek to annihilate. They've done  

some remarkable things. You've been following  all this stuff in the I agree with that. They   have a Hindu temple in Abu Dhabi. You've been  following all this like hate the Muslim stuff  

going on in the United States on the right. I I  hear some of it and it's uh it's unpleasant. We  

shouldn't hate anybody. Amen. Yeah. It's not a  good thing. Hate is a an evil thing. I I don't  

uh you know sometimes you say, "I don't support  child killing." Okay, I don't either. But I don't   support hate in any form. I think it's a horrible  thing. That is such a great standard and I want to  

hold myself to that and thank you for saying that  out loud. I don't hate you. I hope not. Governor,  

ambassador, thank you very much for spending  all this time. I appreciate it. I'm glad you   came. Please come back. I will go with me to  some places and a church. I want you to see  

that as Christians, we're pretty free here.  Amen. Appreciate it. Thank you. And welcome.

===

제시하신 <미국과 이스라엘의 독성 관계에 대해 마이크 허카비와 대치하는 터커 칼슨> 인터뷰 영상의 내용을 바탕으로 한 요약과 평론이다.

<미국-이스라엘 관계의 균열과 종교적 맹신에 대한 비판적 성찰>

1. 서론: 인터뷰의 배경과 목적

본 인터뷰는 터커 칼슨이 주이스라엘 미국 대사 마이크 허카비를 이스라엘 현지에서 만나 진행한 것이다. 칼슨은 미국이 현재 이스라엘의 요구에 따라 이란과의 정권 교체 전쟁으로 나아가고 있다고 진단하며, 이러한 양국 간의 역학 관계를 미국인들이 명확히 이해해야 할 시점임을 강조한다. 특히 허카비 대사가 보여온 친이스라엘 행보와 그 이면에 숨겨진 논란들을 정면으로 파헤치는 것이 이번 대담의 주된 목적이다.

2. 주요 내용 요약

<미국 배신자와의 만남과 사법적 쟁점> 칼슨은 허카비가 미국 역사상 가장 치명적인 스파이로 불리는 조나단 폴라드와 만난 사실을 지적하며 포문을 연다. 또한, 미국에서 성범죄를 저지르고 이스라엘로 도피한 범죄자들의 인도 문제에 대해 허카비가 소극적인 태도를 보였는지에 대해서도 날카로운 질문을 던진다. 이는 미국 대사로서의 국익 수호 의지에 대한 근본적인 의구심을 제기하는 대목이다.

<신학적 이스라엘과 세속적 정부의 혼동> 대담의 핵심 중 하나는 성경 속의 이스라엘과 현재의 세속적인 이스라엘 정부를 동일시하는 기독교 시오니즘에 대한 비판이다. 칼슨은 현재의 이스라엘 정부가 성경적 가치를 대변하는지에 대해 의문을 제기하며, 특히 가자 지구 내 기독교인 살해 문제와 기독교 인구의 감소 현상을 언급한다. 이에 대해 허카비는 이스라엘의 정책을 옹호하며 신학적 정당성을 부여하려 시도한다.

<지정학적 갈등과 미국의 희생> 인터뷰는 이스라엘을 위한 미국의 전쟁 수행 가능성을 심도 있게 다룬다. 9-11 테러 관련 기밀 문서가 여전히 비공개 상태인 점, 이스라엘의 핵무기 탈취 의혹, 그리고 미국이 이스라엘에 막대한 자금을 지원하는 이유 등이 논의된다. 칼슨은 이스라엘이 미국의 이란 협상을 방해하고 있으며, 미국이 이스라엘의 이익을 위해 자국 젊은이들을 전쟁터로 내몰고 있는 것이 아닌지 묻는다.

<도덕적 이중잣대와 인권 문제> 이스라엘 내에서의 자유로운 낙태 허용 문제와 베냐민 네타냐후 총리의 제노사이드 선동 의혹 등 이스라엘 정부의 도덕적 결함에 대해서도 논쟁이 이어진다. 허카비는 이러한 비판에 대해 부정하거나 방어적인 태도를 보이며, 이스라엘의 민주적 가치와 종교적 공존 노력을 강조한다.

3. 평론: 맹목적 동맹이 가린 국익의 실체

본 인터뷰는 미국 보수 진영 내에서 금기시되었던 이스라엘과의 관계에 대해 매우 도발적이고도 근본적인 질문을 던졌다는 점에서 큰 의미를 갖는다.

첫째, 종교적 신념이 외교 정책을 압도할 때 발생하는 위험성을 적나라하게 보여준다. 허카비 대사로 대표되는 복음주의 기독교 세력은 이스라엘을 무조건적인 축복의 대상으로 간주한다. 그러나 칼슨이 지적하듯, 가자 지구의 기독교인들이 고통받고 세속적 정부가 자국의 이익만을 추구하는 상황에서 이러한 맹목적 지지는 미국의 전략적 자율성을 해치고 있다.

둘째, 미국의 국익과 이스라엘의 국익이 반드시 일치하지 않는다는 사실을 환기시킨다. 9-11 기밀 해제 거부나 이란과의 전쟁 가능성 등은 미국 시민들의 안전 및 경제적 부담과 직결되는 문제다. 칼슨은 <독성 관계>라는 표현을 통해, 한쪽의 일방적인 요구와 다른 쪽의 무비판적인 수용이 만들어낸 기형적인 동맹 구조를 비판하고 있다.

셋째, 언론의 역할을 재확인시킨다. 대다수 주류 언론이 이스라엘 비판을 반유대주의로 몰아붙이며 회피할 때, 칼슨은 구체적인 데이터와 질문을 통해 성역 없는 취재를 감행했다. 이는 시청자들로 하여금 선전적인 외교 수사 뒤에 숨겨진 진실이 무엇인지 고민하게 만든다.

4. 결론

마이크 허카비와의 대담은 단순히 특정 정치인에 대한 공격이 아니라, 미국의 대중동 정책 전반에 대한 통렬한 반성문이다. 종교적 도그마와 결합된 외교 정책은 합리적인 판단을 흐리게 하며, 결국 국가를 원치 않는 전쟁과 도덕적 파산으로 이끌 수 있다. 이 인터뷰는 미국이 진정으로 추구해야 할 가치가 무엇인지, 그리고 <특별한 관계>라는 이름 아래 얼마나 많은 기회비용을 지불하고 있는지를 냉철하게 돌아보게 하는 계기가 된다.

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다음 글은 「Tucker Confronts Mike Huckabee on America’s Toxic Relationship With Israel」 대담 녹취록(총 57쪽)을 바탕으로 한 약 1,200단어 요약+평론이다.

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1. 전체 구조와 문제 제기

이 인터뷰는 2026년 2월 방영된 대담으로, 진행자 터커 칼슨이 주이스라엘 미국대사 마이크 허커비를 상대로 미국–이스라엘 관계의 성격을 정면으로 문제 삼는 형식이다. 영상 제목 자체가 “미국의 병적인(‘toxic’) 이스라엘 관계”라는 규정을 달고 시작한다

Tucker Confronts Mike Huckabee …

.

대담은 크게 다음과 같은 쟁점들로 구성된다.

1. 이스라엘에서의 조사 및 외교적 경험

2. 조너선 폴라드 면담 문제

3. 미국 성범죄 피의자들의 이스라엘 도피 및 송환 문제

4. 9·11 및 이라크 전쟁의 배경

5. 이스라엘의 대이란 정책과 미국의 전쟁 개입 가능성

6. 가자지구의 민간인, 특히 기독교인 피해 문제

7. 성서적 이스라엘과 현대 세속 국가 이스라엘의 동일시 문제

8. 미국의 대규모 원조 및 핵무기 문제

칼슨은 전반적으로 “미국이 이스라엘을 위해 전쟁을 대신 싸우고 있다”는 의혹을 제기하고, 허커비는 이를 부정하면서 “미국은 스스로의 이익에 따라 행동한다”고 방어한다.

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2. 조너선 폴라드 문제: 동맹과 배신의 경계

칼슨은 허커비가 미국을 배신한 간첩 조너선 폴라드를 대사관에서 만난 사실을 문제 삼는다

Tucker Confronts Mike Huckabee …

. 폴라드는 미국 기밀을 이스라엘에 넘긴 인물로, 미국 내에서는 ‘배신자’로 평가된다.

칼슨의 질문은 단순하다. “미국 대사가 자국을 배신한 인물을 만나는 것이 적절한가?” 이는 미국–이스라엘 관계가 과연 상호적 동맹인가, 아니면 일방적 특혜 구조인가를 묻는 상징적 장면이다.

허커비는 이를 “일상적 면담”의 하나로 축소한다. 그는 대사로서 다양한 인물을 만날 수 있다고 말하며 후회하지 않는다고 한다. 여기서 드러나는 것은 양측의 시각 차이다.

• 칼슨: 동맹이라면 최소한 ‘자국 배신’ 문제에는 명확한 선을 그어야 한다.

• 허커비: 외교는 복잡하며 면담 자체가 지지나 승인 의미는 아니다.

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3. 성범죄 피의자 도피 문제: 정의의 보편성인가, 외교적 회피인가

칼슨은 미국에서 성범죄 혐의를 받고 이스라엘로 도피한 사례를 제기한다

Tucker Confronts Mike Huckabee …

. 그는 “가장 가까운 동맹국이 아동 성범죄 피의자를 보호하는 것이 말이 되는가?”라고 묻는다

Tucker Confronts Mike Huckabee …

.

허커비는 구체적 사건을 모른다고 답하고, 송환 문제는 사법 절차 영역이라고 말한다

Tucker Confronts Mike Huckabee …

. 즉, 그는 행정부와 사법부의 분리를 강조한다.

칼슨의 논점은 도덕적 일관성이다. 미국이 막대한 원조를 제공하면서도 자국민 피해 문제에서 단호하지 않다면, 그것은 ‘비정상적 관계’가 아니냐는 것이다. 허커비는 절차적 답변으로 일관하며 구조적 문제 제기에는 직접 답하지 않는다.

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4. 이라크 전쟁과 9·11: ‘이스라엘을 위한 전쟁’ 논쟁

대담의 핵심 충돌은 이라크 전쟁의 성격을 둘러싸고 벌어진다. 칼슨은 이라크 전쟁이 사실상 이스라엘의 전략적 이해와 연결되어 있었다고 주장한다

Tucker Confronts Mike Huckabee …

.

그는 다음과 같은 논리를 제시한다.

• 9·11과 이라크는 직접적 연관이 없었다.

• WMD(대량살상무기) 정보는 허위였다.

• 이라크 제거는 이스라엘의 안보 이해에 부합했다.

• 따라서 미국은 자국민 희생을 감수하며 타국의 전략을 수행한 셈이다.

허커비는 이를 강하게 부정한다. 그는 이라크 전쟁이 미국의 판단이었다고 말한다

Tucker Confronts Mike Huckabee …

. 또한 “작은 이스라엘이 미국을 조종한다”는 암시는 부당하다고 주장한다

Tucker Confronts Mike Huckabee …

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이 대목은 단순한 역사 해석 차이가 아니다.
핵심은 “정책 결정의 주체는 누구인가?”라는 질문이다.

• 칼슨: 미국 엘리트는 외부 압력과 이념적 동맹에 의해 움직였다.

• 허커비: 미국은 독립적 행위자이며 음모론적 해석은 부당하다.

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5. 이란 전쟁 가능성과 미국 민심

칼슨은 “미국인은 이란과의 전쟁을 원하지 않는다”고 말하며, 네타냐후의 잦은 백악관 방문을 지적한다

Tucker Confronts Mike Huckabee …

.

그의 핵심 질문은 이것이다.

• 미국 국민의 의사와 외교·안보 정책은 일치하는가?

• 특정 외국 지도자가 미국 정치에 과도한 영향력을 행사하는가?

허커비는 트럼프 행정부가 강력하며 미국 이익을 최우선으로 한다고 방어한다

Tucker Confronts Mike Huckabee …

.

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6. 가자 전쟁과 인간 생명의 가치

가자 민간인 사망 문제에서 허커비는 모든 생명의 동등한 가치를 인정한다

Tucker Confronts Mike Huckabee …

.

이 장면은 인터뷰 중 가장 신학적 색채가 강하다. 허커비는 “모든 인간의 영혼은 동등하다”고 말한다. 칼슨 역시 이에 동의한다.

그러나 문제는 현실이다.

• 생명은 동등하다고 말하면서,

• 실제 정책은 특정 국가에 압도적 군사 지원을 제공한다.

이 긴장은 대담 전체의 도덕적 핵심이다.

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7. 평론: 무엇이 이 대담의 의미인가?

1) 미국 우파 내부의 균열

이 인터뷰는 미국 보수 진영 내부의 균열을 보여준다. 전통적 친이스라엘 공화당 외교 노선과, 고립주의적·국민주의적 우파 사이의 충돌이다.

칼슨은 “미국 우선주의”를 밀어붙인다.
허커비는 “가치 동맹”을 강조한다.

2) 구조적 의존 관계 문제

칼슨의 주장은 단순 반이스라엘 정서라기보다, 구조적 의존 관계 비판에 가깝다.

• 막대한 군사·재정 지원

• 외교적 자동 지지

• 전략적 일체화

그는 이것이 민주적 통제를 벗어나 있다고 본다.

3) 허커비의 한계

허커비의 답변은 대부분 절차적·외교적이다.

• 사법부 분리

• 정보 부족

• 음모론 부정

그러나 그는 “왜 미국은 이 정도로 깊이 개입하는가?”라는 근본 질문에는 철학적 답을 주지 못한다.

4) 칼슨의 한계

반면 칼슨 역시 몇몇 주장에서는 단정적이다.
이라크 전쟁의 원인을 “사실로 안다”고 말하지만

Tucker Confronts Mike Huckabee …

, 복합적 요인을 단일 축으로 환원하는 위험이 있다.

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8. 결론적 평가

이 대담은 단순한 외교 논쟁이 아니다.
그것은 다음 질문을 던진다.

1. 동맹은 어디까지 허용되는가?

2. 민주주의 국가에서 외교 정책은 누구의 의사를 반영하는가?

3. 종교적·이념적 연대는 현실 정치에서 어떤 역할을 하는가?

4. 미국–이스라엘 관계는 전략적 선택인가, 구조적 고착인가?

이 인터뷰의 가치는 정답 제시에 있지 않다.
오히려 미국 정치 내부에서 이제까지 금기시되던 질문을 공개적으로 던졌다는 데 있다.

‘toxic relationship’이라는 표현은 과장일 수 있다. 그러나 분명한 것은, 이 관계가 미국 정치의 가장 예민한 신경 중 하나라는 점이다.

이 대담은 그 신경을 공개적으로 건드렸다.

그리고 그 자체가 이미 하나의 정치적 사건이다.

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